[REL] Open Horizons II - Page 275

Targor Avelany · 11-02-13, 09:45 PM

also, if anyone will have more detailed pictures/information on WW2 mines, send it my way, as I'm currently gathering info on that so we can make new mines in gr2

gap · 11-03-13, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

The New K-Ship is a much better version then We did for GWX.
It's not my 3D work but I have permission from the creator to use it.

@gap

Check your e-mail! I have sent important information!

Wow, this might be a major breakthrough mate. Please keep on your brilliant work

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

also, if anyone will have more detailed pictures/information on WW2 mines, send it my way, as I'm currently gathering info on that so we can make new mines in gr2

Hi Max, have you had a look into the Grenades, mines and bobytraps website already? I am sure that you will find there all the information that you need for

Silent Steel · 11-03-13, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoianm

...do you think I need an examination before they will give me the command of a new Uboat? Can you put a good word for me at Donitz?.. to be sure that I will pass the exam!

With your experience this shouldn't be necessary but of course I'll recommend you next time I see Donitz.

Targor Avelany · 11-03-13, 12:37 PM

@gap & Trevally,

I have decided Type 17 (Mark XVII) mine will be the best choice for our new sea mine. So far from everything I was able to find, this was the most used sea mine by British during WW2. If you have other suggestions or information that contradicts mine, please let me know!

gap · 11-03-13, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

@gap & Trevally,

I have decided Type 17 (Mark XVII) mine will be the best choice for our new sea mine. So far from everything I was able to find, this was the most used sea mine by British during WW2. If you have other suggestions or information that contradicts mine, please let me know!

Good choice Max, I can't wait to see your model

Targor Avelany · 11-04-13, 10:09 PM

decided since it is being made for the OH, I'll post the screenies here:

Here is what I've got so far:

gap · 11-05-13, 03:55 AM

Looks awesome Targor, love the details

At this moment I have just a couple of suggestions: the two poles should be identical (two perfect hemispheres) and, for the record, from real photographs I get only 32 bolts fixing the top cover.

gap · 11-05-13, 08:40 AM

@ Trevally on barrage balloon usage:

http://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/un...n-command.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_A...iary_Air_Force

The above links have most of the information you need for placing the balloons in campaign.

You might also find the following general information useful:

Types of balloon
Disregarding the Admiralty Type Mk. VI spherical balloons employed as offensive means during the so called Operations Albino and Outward [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] (on a side note, similar balloons were also used for carrying propaganda leaflets beyond the enemy lines [6]), and the American D-7 and D-8 low pressure ballonet type balloons [7], [8], which afaik never crossed the Atlantic, three main types of defence balloons served in the British forces:

the Low Zone Mk. VII and Mk. X ballonet type Kite Balloons, used mostly or exclusively at home for land or coastal defence, and represented in game by our model;
the Low Zone Mk. IV Kite Balloons, routinely used for the defence of British installations outside UK, in "hot climates" around the Mediterranean and as far as the British Raj [9], [10].
the Ultra Low Altitude Mk. XIII Balloons, similar in shape to Mk. IV balloons but probably smaller; they were employed aboard British and American landing crafts (both nations apparently used the same design) and by troops disembarked from them during Italy, North Africa and Normandy landings [7]; this model might also be the one most commonly used aboard merchant convoy vessels.

Unless noted otherwise, the information reported below is relative to the Low Zone Mk. VII ballonet type balloon.

Balloon usage
Air defense ballloon could be:

anchored to the soil for defending cities and military/civil strategic installations. The main purpose of these balloon fields was not to pose a direct threat to attacking aircraft, but interdicting them from flying at low altitude, thus reducing their bomb-dropping accuracy and making them better targets for the air defence batteries which were often associated with balloon barrage fields [12] [13], [14].
tethered aboard drifters, barges, tugboats, and (occasionally) sailboats. These vessels were often docked in harbours and estuaries and were meant both for defending coastal installations and shipping against air raids, and for interdicting the laying of minefields by low-flying aircraft [13], [14], [15], [16]. Small merchant ships and motor boats could also be manned as supply vessels, used for the servicing and delivery of pre-inflateed balloons to convoy shipping passing through particular chokepoints or leaving from major ports [17], [18].
towed by sea-going vessels, especially tugs, patrol boats, minesweepers and small merchants, for their own defense and the defense of escorted convoys [15], [19], [20]. The balloons employed for this purpose might have been of the LZ ballonet type [21], or (arguably more often) of the more handy ULA Mk. XIII type [16], [22].
towed by LST/LSM landing craft (only ULA type, see above).

Balloon barrage flying orders
The general rule prescribed to Balloon Squadrons in Libya, Egypt and the Middle East was as follows [23].

Land-based balloons:
- bedded down or hauled at an altitude of 100 ft during day time;
- flown at a ruling operation height of 2,000 ft at night;
- flown at a maximum operation height of 2,500 or 4,500 ft in case of air raids.
Ship-borne balloons: flown at an altitude from 1,000 to 2,000 ft (2,000 ft being the standard height for Mk. XIII balloons flown aboard merchant vessels [15]).

The above provisions had several exceptions, especially concerning the usage of balloons around strategic targets, which was allowed also during day time [23].
Though not being relative to home defence, it is possible that a similar set of rules was also applied to barrage balloon fields in England. It must be nonetheless noted that, at least over London, barrage balloons were flown during the day as well as at night. Historical photographs and footage clearly in same moment of the day different balloons might have been flow at different altitudes, as shown in many photographs and in historical footage [24].

List of sources:
[1] Military History Now - Death From Above: The Bomber Balloons Of WW2
[2] What Lies Beneath Rattlechain Lagoon? - Operation Outward
[3] Wikipedia - Operation Outward
[4] Raoul E. Drapeau on IEEE power&energy Magazine - Operation Outward: Britain's World War II offensive balloons
[5] The Balloon Barrage Reunion Club Website - Free Balloon Operations in World War Two
[6] Lee Richards - The “M” Balloon Unit: British Balloon Distribution of Aerial Propaganda During WWII
[7] skylighter.org - Barrage Balloons in World War II: from Camp Tyson to Omaha Beach
[8] The Army Air Forces in World War II, Vol. VI: Men and Planes, Chapter 3: Air defense of the United States
[9] BBRC - Sqdn/L Robert Wallis Beresford 978 Squadron India
[10] BBRC - Various pictures of Sqdn Ldr Beresford and his Crew
[10] Maj Franklin J. Hillson on Airpower Journal - Summer 1989 - Barrage Ballons for Low-Level Air Defense
[11] Air Minister Sees Barrage Balloons ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1938)
[12] Air Attack On Dover Harbour ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1940)
[13] Beaten Back ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1940)
[14] BBRC - Barrage Balloon Vessels: an Introduction
[15] BBRC - Balloon Barrage Vessel A Y Alessie: a short pictorial history
[16] Leonard C. Bacon - Hull's Own Airforce Station (17 Balloon Centre - RAF Sutton on Hull), Chapter 2: Things Ballonatic
[17] WW2Talk forum - Gasmasks, barrage balloons, sandbags and wardens’ rattles 1938, post#7
[18] RN Department Office of Naval Intelligence, Nov 1918 - Kite Balloons in Escorts
[19] uboat.net - Allied warships - HMS Nubian (F 36)
[20] Barrage Balloons for Convoys ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1940)
[22] War44 forums - Kite Balloons that Beat the Dive Bombers
[23] BBRC - Battle Orders - Balloon Barrages and Squadrons in Egypt, Libya and Levant
[24] Balloon Barrage ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1941)
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/ba...itle-heres-how
worldwar-two.net - Barrage Balloons
Traces of World War 2 - RAF - 902 Balloon
John Penny - A short history of No.11 Balloon Centre at Pucklechurch, 1939 to 1945, and RAF Station Pucklechurch, 1945 to 1959
War44 forums - Barrage Balloons
Ottawa Citizen, 12 Dec 1939 - Balloon Barrage Placed Over The Firth Of Forth
The Glasgow Herald, 18 Apr 1942 - Firth of Forth's Protection from the Air
Matrix Games Forums - Barrage balloons
US War Department - Barrage Balloon: Operation of Matériel and Employment of Personnel (FM 4-117, June 1 1942)
US War Department - Barrage Balloon Site Installations (FM 4-184, April 13 1943)
BBRC - Balloon Command: Development of Balloon Command in the first and second world wars

Trevally. · 11-05-13, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

decided since it is being made for the OH, I'll post the screenies here:

Here is what I've got so far

Looking good Targor

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

@ Trevally on barrage balloon usage:

thanks Gap - I will read through this tonight

gap · 11-05-13, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally.

thanks Gap - I will read through this tonight

Make sure to watch the dramatic footage of the German raid on Dover of August 1940. It records the destruction of a barrage balloon, and the downing of several planes by the British coastal artillery.

I hope we can recreate a similar scenery in game

Targor Avelany · 11-05-13, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Looks awesome Targor, love the details

At this moment I have just a couple of suggestions: the two poles should be identical (two perfect hemispheres) and, for the record, from real photographs I get only 32 bolts fixing the top cover.

Yep. Started over yesterday in order to make sure to stay as close as possible to correct numbers.

gap · 11-05-13, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Yep. Started over yesterday in order to make sure to stay as close as possible to correct numbers.

Personally I would go for the following figures:

- diameter: 40"
- central belt height: 8", or whatever fits better the pictures and drawings we have available.
- total height (only mine body without the two caps): 20" + belt height + 20"
- horns: 11 horns of 6" (2 on the top cap, 5 on the top hemisphere, 4 on the lower hemishpere)
- color and markings: as visible from this picture: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1NdL_8bK4S...0/DSC00267.JPG

Targor Avelany · 11-05-13, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Personally I would go for the following figures:

- diameter: 40"
- central belt height: 8", or whatever fits better the pictures and drawings we have available.
- total height (only mine body without the two caps): 20" + belt height + 20"
- horns: 11 horns of 6" (2 on the top cap, 5 on the top hemisphere, 4 on the lower hemishpere)
- color and markings: as visible from this picture: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1NdL_8bK4S...0/DSC00267.JPG

That is pretty much the route I have decided to take

11-05-13, 04:42 PM

Given you have problems with mines already?
I'd slim the model down by doing graphics work for all the bolts and nuts!
Those things will produce a massive amount of verts to render!

Even haveing the LOD version once you get to close?
I'd expect problems.
Here's what I did for bolts on the 12 pounder.

Cybermat47 · 11-05-13, 05:36 PM

The mod's coming a long way

11-05-13, 03:55 AM	#4117
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	Looks awesome Targor, love the details At this moment I have just a couple of suggestions: the two poles should be identical (two perfect hemispheres) and, for the record, from real photographs I get only 32 bolts fixing the top cover. __________________ _____________________ \|May the Force be with you!\| ...\/

11-05-13, 08:40 AM	#4118
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	@ Trevally on barrage balloon usage: http://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/un...n-command.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_A...iary_Air_Force The above links have most of the information you need for placing the balloons in campaign. You might also find the following general information useful: Types of balloon Disregarding the Admiralty Type Mk. VI spherical balloons employed as offensive means during the so called Operations Albino and Outward [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] (on a side note, similar balloons were also used for carrying propaganda leaflets beyond the enemy lines [6]), and the American D-7 and D-8 low pressure ballonet type balloons [7], [8], which afaik never crossed the Atlantic, three main types of defence balloons served in the British forces: the Low Zone Mk. VII and Mk. X ballonet type Kite Balloons, used mostly or exclusively at home for land or coastal defence, and represented in game by our model; the Low Zone Mk. IV Kite Balloons, routinely used for the defence of British installations outside UK, in "hot climates" around the Mediterranean and as far as the British Raj [9], [10]. the Ultra Low Altitude Mk. XIII Balloons, similar in shape to Mk. IV balloons but probably smaller; they were employed aboard British and American landing crafts (both nations apparently used the same design) and by troops disembarked from them during Italy, North Africa and Normandy landings [7]; this model might also be the one most commonly used aboard merchant convoy vessels. Unless noted otherwise, the information reported below is relative to the Low Zone Mk. VII ballonet type balloon. Balloon usage Air defense ballloon could be: anchored to the soil for defending cities and military/civil strategic installations. The main purpose of these balloon fields was not to pose a direct threat to attacking aircraft, but interdicting them from flying at low altitude, thus reducing their bomb-dropping accuracy and making them better targets for the air defence batteries which were often associated with balloon barrage fields [12] [13], [14]. tethered aboard drifters, barges, tugboats, and (occasionally) sailboats. These vessels were often docked in harbours and estuaries and were meant both for defending coastal installations and shipping against air raids, and for interdicting the laying of minefields by low-flying aircraft [13], [14], [15], [16]. Small merchant ships and motor boats could also be manned as supply vessels, used for the servicing and delivery of pre-inflateed balloons to convoy shipping passing through particular chokepoints or leaving from major ports [17], [18]. towed by sea-going vessels, especially tugs, patrol boats, minesweepers and small merchants, for their own defense and the defense of escorted convoys [15], [19], [20]. The balloons employed for this purpose might have been of the LZ ballonet type [21], or (arguably more often) of the more handy ULA Mk. XIII type [16], [22]. towed by LST/LSM landing craft (only ULA type, see above). Balloon barrage flying orders The general rule prescribed to Balloon Squadrons in Libya, Egypt and the Middle East was as follows [23]. Land-based balloons: bedded down or hauled at an altitude of 100 ft during day time; flown at a ruling operation height of 2,000 ft at night; flown at a maximum operation height of 2,500 or 4,500 ft in case of air raids. Ship-borne balloons: flown at an altitude from 1,000 to 2,000 ft (2,000 ft being the standard height for Mk. XIII balloons flown aboard merchant vessels [15]). The above provisions had several exceptions, especially concerning the usage of balloons around strategic targets, which was allowed also during day time [23]. Though not being relative to home defence, it is possible that a similar set of rules was also applied to barrage balloon fields in England. It must be nonetheless noted that, at least over London, barrage balloons were flown during the day as well as at night. Historical photographs and footage clearly in same moment of the day different balloons might have been flow at different altitudes, as shown in many photographs and in historical footage [24]. List of sources: [1] Military History Now - Death From Above: The Bomber Balloons Of WW2 [2] What Lies Beneath Rattlechain Lagoon? - Operation Outward [3] Wikipedia - Operation Outward [4] Raoul E. Drapeau on IEEE power&energy Magazine - Operation Outward: Britain's World War II offensive balloons [5] The Balloon Barrage Reunion Club Website - Free Balloon Operations in World War Two [6] Lee Richards - The “M” Balloon Unit: British Balloon Distribution of Aerial Propaganda During WWII [7] skylighter.org - Barrage Balloons in World War II: from Camp Tyson to Omaha Beach [8] The Army Air Forces in World War II, Vol. VI: Men and Planes, Chapter 3: Air defense of the United States [9] BBRC - Sqdn/L Robert Wallis Beresford 978 Squadron India [10] BBRC - Various pictures of Sqdn Ldr Beresford and his Crew [10] Maj Franklin J. Hillson on Airpower Journal - Summer 1989 - Barrage Ballons for Low-Level Air Defense [11] Air Minister Sees Barrage Balloons ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1938) [12] Air Attack On Dover Harbour ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1940) [13] Beaten Back ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1940) [14] BBRC - Barrage Balloon Vessels: an Introduction [15] BBRC - Balloon Barrage Vessel A Y Alessie: a short pictorial history [16] Leonard C. Bacon - Hull's Own Airforce Station (17 Balloon Centre - RAF Sutton on Hull), Chapter 2: Things Ballonatic [17] WW2Talk forum - Gasmasks, barrage balloons, sandbags and wardens’ rattles 1938, post#7 [18] RN Department Office of Naval Intelligence, Nov 1918 - Kite Balloons in Escorts [19] uboat.net - Allied warships - HMS Nubian (F 36) [20] Barrage Balloons for Convoys ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1940) [22] War44 forums - Kite Balloons that Beat the Dive Bombers [23] BBRC - Battle Orders - Balloon Barrages and Squadrons in Egypt, Libya and Levant [24] Balloon Barrage ("Pathé Gazette" newsreel, 1941) http://www.britishpathe.com/video/ba...itle-heres-how worldwar-two.net - Barrage Balloons Traces of World War 2 - RAF - 902 Balloon John Penny - A short history of No.11 Balloon Centre at Pucklechurch, 1939 to 1945, and RAF Station Pucklechurch, 1945 to 1959 War44 forums - Barrage Balloons Ottawa Citizen, 12 Dec 1939 - Balloon Barrage Placed Over The Firth Of Forth The Glasgow Herald, 18 Apr 1942 - Firth of Forth's Protection from the Air Matrix Games Forums - Barrage balloons US War Department - Barrage Balloon: Operation of Matériel and Employment of Personnel (FM 4-117, June 1 1942) US War Department - Barrage Balloon Site Installations (FM 4-184, April 13 1943) BBRC - Balloon Command: Development of Balloon Command in the first and second world wars __________________ _____________________ \|May the Force be with you!\| ...\/

11-05-13, 04:42 PM	#4124
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Given you have problems with mines already? I'd slim the model down by doing graphics work for all the bolts and nuts! Those things will produce a massive amount of verts to render! Even haveing the LOD version once you get to close? I'd expect problems. Here's what I did for bolts on the 12 pounder. Last edited by Madox58; 11-05-13 at 05:48 PM.

11-05-13, 05:36 PM	#4125
Cybermat47 Willing Webfooted Beast Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 5,408 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 23	The mod's coming a long way __________________ Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620 Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

11-02-13, 09:45 PM	#4111
Targor Avelany Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 1,183 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	also, if anyone will have more detailed pictures/information on WW2 mines, send it my way, as I'm currently gathering info on that so we can make new mines in gr2

11-03-13, 12:37 PM	#4114
Targor Avelany Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 1,183 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	@gap & Trevally, I have decided Type 17 (Mark XVII) mine will be the best choice for our new sea mine. So far from everything I was able to find, this was the most used sea mine by British during WW2. If you have other suggestions or information that contradicts mine, please let me know!

11-04-13, 10:09 PM	#4116
Targor Avelany Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 1,183 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	decided since it is being made for the OH, I'll post the screenies here: Here is what I've got so far: