[WIP] A New MegaMod

[Rongel]

Originally Posted by gap

@ Rongel & Trevally

Okay, thanks! I will test this later and give feedback!

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rongel

Okay, thanks! I will test this later and give feedback!

Shouldn't work, mines can be easily converted to the GR2 format which surely supports LOD models. For ships it would more complicated though

Fingers crossed

[Targor Avelany]

Once I'll finish with the Balloons I'll work on the mines & getting ships into the GR2s.

Unfortunately, with my extremely limited time availability, it is a slow process...

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Once I'll finish with the Balloons I'll work on the mines & getting ships into the GR2s.

yesss! Unfortunately at the current state of our GR2 knowledge, converting DAT ships into GR2 objects is probably going to be pitifully slow process; it is nonetheless an essential step that we should take soon or later.

Since you introduced the argument, Targor, any anticipation on the balloon?
How is your work coming along? Have you discovered the cause of the texture mapping corruption? Today, while looking into OH's mines, I have discovered that their chains own a FollowParent controller, probably for making them to wave realistically around their anchoring point. Maybe we you should look into them and set the GR2 balloon for use of the said controller

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

yesss! Unfortunately at the current state of our GR2 knowledge, converting DAT ships into GR2 objects is probably going to be pitifully slow process; it is nonetheless an essential step that we should take soon or later.

Since you introduced the argument, Targor, any anticipation on the balloon?
How is your work coming along? Have you discovered the cause of the texture mapping corruption? Today, while looking into OH's mines, I have discovered that their chains own a FollowParent controller, probably for making them to wave realistically around their anchoring point. Maybe we you should look into them and set the GR2 balloon for use of the said controller

Setting up the controller is not hard. I didn't find the cause, but I am pretty sure the biggest issue was the base GR2 file that you took.
The balloon is essentially ready and I am just finishing everything up and making sure that it is more than prepared for any further modification: renaming of skeleton/bones, proper positioning, material names and meshes.
GR2 Editor is still very unstable when you do any of the changes and it is extremely hard sometimes to predict which change will break the file, so I have to save/close/reopen the file after each change and that is one of the reasons why it takes so long.

In regards to the mines:
I've looked over the documents that you gave me on the WW2 mines and done some other research, but there are just no mines like the ones in OH2 (at least not that I can find). I can be wrong - in which case I would greatly appreciate the info/source, so I could match it to that. I also might re-do the mines with a completely new mesh model and will just pick one of the bottom-chained mines that were used most throughout WW2 or even WW1 (as it seems lots of WW1 mines were used).

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Setting up the controller is not hard.

The anchoring point of the balloon should be the bottom part of the central cable. This should also be the pivot around which the balloon should "fluctuate", if possible. I was also planning to use the same model with some minor modification for ship-borne balloons (in dat format at the moment). In this case the balloon and the cable shouldn't be affected by ship's pitch and roll, always keeping the vertical. Not sure how to do it though. Maybe an object pendulum controller?

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I didn't find the cause, but I am pretty sure the biggest issue was the base GR2 file that you took.

At first sight it looked like the best candidate
What other object are you using instead?

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

The balloon is essentially ready and I am just finishing everything up and making sure that it is more than prepared for any further modification: renaming of skeleton/bones, proper positioning, material names and meshes.

can't wait!

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

GR2 Editor is still very unstable when you do any of the changes and it is extremely hard sometimes to predict which change will break the file, so I have to save/close/reopen the file after each change and that is one of the reasons why it takes so long.

Yep, this is what I was talking about when I said that importing complex units is pitifully slow process. But I have also noticed that the more one messes with it, the more he learns which sequence of actions can potentially break the file. For sure saving many backups is an essential part of the workflow....

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

In regards to the mines:
I've looked over the documents that you gave me on the WW2 mines and done some other research, but there are just no mines like the ones in OH2 (at least not that I can find). I can be wrong - in which case I would greatly appreciate the info/source, so I could match it to that. I also might re-do the mines with a completely new mesh model and will just pick one of the bottom-chained mines that were used most throughout WW2 or even WW1 (as it seems lots of WW1 mines were used).

I like the model used so far in OH, but I agree with you that it is not very realistic (the least problem being its exorbitant size!).

Besides the document I have pointed you to, there are many other WWII ordnance manuals available on the web, many of them with detailed original drawings. The most complete on-line collection of originaldocuments I have found so far is Grenades, mines and bobytraps.

In addition, I suggest you becoming a memeber of the Accurate Model Parts forum. Model builders ar probably more fastidious that us subsim gamers, when it comes to details. The website above is full of pictures and drawings showing WWII weapons in every detail. It got even a German U-boat section where you coud probably more that one interesting clue for your u-boat type IX project!

Getting back to the main topicc, I am sure that in the aforementioned sources we will find all we need to create some realistic WWII mine. Would be cool having at least one model for each of the main Nations involved in WWII. I will be glad to cooperate with you on this project, both through 3d modelling and GR2 Editor work

[Rongel]

Originally Posted by gap

@ Rongel & Trevally

just a thought re. minefield and dat ships' stuttering: I was wondering if the issue could be related to the fact that those units are missing LOD models. Before you start reducing their usage in campaign, could you please test the patch below?

Okay, tested the mine patch, but sadly I got the same results as before: I'm cruising closer to the minefield (in NavMap with TC 256) and then when I'm near, the lag starts, I can lower TC to 128 and there is no problem. When I'm using TC 1 and hang around the bridge or use free camera, there is no lag either, just like before.

So I think now that the problem isn't with the too detailed mines, it just the amount of them. There is about 30 mine cluster nodes in the minefield, each node has 50 mines (!) so to total number is 1500 mines. Of course it's a large area and only some of them are loaded from the memory.

But my bet is that only removing some of them will help, as the problem only exists in the NavMap. And finally, it's not that big problem, there are many worse!

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rongel

Okay, tested the mine patch

Okay Rongel, thanks for testing. I have just a question: were the "real" mines actually replaced by my LOD pyramids at far distance, or not? Have you looked for them in external view?

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

The anchoring point of the balloon should be the bottom part of the central cable. This should also be the pivot around which the balloon should "fluctuate", if possible. I was also planning to use the same model with some minor modification for ship-borne balloons (in dat format at the moment). In this case the balloon and the cable shouldn't be affected by ship's pitch and roll, always keeping the vertical. Not sure how to do it though. Maybe an object pendulum controller?

I don't think that this would be much of a problem. There are enough bones on this thing.

Originally Posted by gap

At first sight it looked like the best candidate
What other object are you using instead?

Iceberg03

Originally Posted by gap

can't wait!

Yep, this is what I was talking about when I said that importing complex units is pitifully slow process. But I have also noticed that the more one messes with it, the more he learns which sequence of actions can potentially break the file. For sure saving many backups is an essential part of the workflow....

Yep. 100% agree.

Originally Posted by gap

I like the model used so far in OH, but I agree with you that it is not very realistic (the least problem being its exorbitant size!).

Besides the document I have pointed you to, there are many other WWII ordnance manuals available on the web, many of them with detailed original drawings. The most complete on-line collection of originaldocuments I have found so far is Grenades, mines and bobytraps.

In addition, I suggest you becoming a memeber of the Accurate Model Parts forum. Model builders ar probably more fastidious that us subsim gamers, when it comes to details. The website above is full of pictures and drawings showing WWII weapons in every detail. It got even a German U-boat section where you coud probably more that one interesting clue for your u-boat type IX project!

Getting back to the main topicc, I am sure that in the aforementioned sources we will find all we need to create some realistic WWII mine. Would be cool having at least one model for each of the main Nations involved in WWII. I will be glad to cooperate with you on this project, both through 3d modelling and GR2 Editor work

Awesome! I appreciate the point at a modelling forum.
I also agree with you on the mines: I love the OH2 mine, but it is not realistic. As a result what I think my first step will be is to create a model that is close to the mine with spikes similar to OH2, but base it's size/shape on a real mine.

[Rongel]

Originally Posted by gap

Okay Rongel, thanks for testing. I have just a question: were the "real" mines actually replaced by my LOD pyramids at far distance, or not? Have you looked for them in external view?

Well I tried to look at the mine from very far away, tried also using zoom, but I didn't see your crazy LOD mines, just the basic rust-ridden metal ball of death. So it seems the effect wasn't in action...

About the pitch/roll, it seems that there is not much we can do by editing the submarines physics, they are quite carefully stabilized, weird things start to happen if you mess with them. So editing the sea (sim.cfg) seems to be the way to go.

And also depth charge shakes seem to be almost impossible to make by editing DC files, or submarine physics. To get the right effet, we need more powerful tools and probably TDW himself!

There was atleast some progress today, I found out that 7b and 7c submarines are missing some conning tower effects. The conning tower splash wave is assigned to only one tower, others were missing it! But with the help of TDW's editor, it is now fixed as you can see here:



I also edited the effect a bit, now the trigger area is the whole conning tower, so big waves can cause splashes right in your face!

[conus00]

Beautiful, pic. Makes me wish that my SH5 was working... Hurry up with the mod!!! LOL j/k
On a serious note: I am almost done going through my graphic files so you should get an updated version soon (hopefully) after this weekend.

Originally Posted by gap

Maybe an object pendulum controller?

I think I tried that in SH3 with the first Balloons hooked to ships.


I do recall flipping ships when balloons started swaying!


@Rongel,
That is a beautiful picture!


What would work (even in SH3/4) is to do a keyframe animation thing to give them motion beyound just what they get from the attachment point.
We didn't know how to do that back then but it's easy to do now.

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by privateer

I think I tried that in SH3 with the first Balloons hooked to ships.


I do recall flipping ships when balloons started swaying!


@Rongel,
That is a beautiful picture!


What would work (even in SH3/4) is to do a keyframe animation thing to give them motion beyound just what they get from the attachment point.
We didn't know how to do that back then but it's easy to do now.

But you can do it in dat files, but not in GR2, right?

Yes. It would need to be done in a dat file format. For now.
I have figured out much of the GR2 animation format used in SH5 so it's just a matter of time and codeing skills to open those up to modding.
The Expotron thing might work for the whole deal. RAD hates that release but I see AOE3 people and many others still useing it and I get the feeling RAD gave up trying to stop that.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rongel

Well I tried to look at the mine from very far away, tried also using zoom, but I didn't see your crazy LOD mines, just the basic rust-ridden metal ball of death. So it seems the effect wasn't in action...

Yep, evidently GR2 objects contain a trigger making LOD models to be rendered a certain distance, which is missing from dat units

@ privater

I had called the lod dat files Floating_Mine_LOD, Floating_Mine_Chain_LOD, etc, and put them in the folders of their main units...

Originally Posted by Rongel

About the pitch/roll, it seems that there is not much we can do by editing the submarines physics, they are quite carefully stabilized, weird things start to happen if you mess with them. So editing the sea (sim.cfg) seems to be the way to go.

I think so: sim.cfg's mechanical factors for base effect, sub physics files for finetuning

Originally Posted by Rongel

And also depth charge shakes seem to be almost impossible to make by editing DC files, or submarine physics. To get the right effet, we need more powerful tools and probably TDW himself!

I see

Originally Posted by Rongel

There was atleast some progress today, I found out that 7b and 7c submarines are missing some conning tower effects. The conning tower splash wave is assigned to only one tower, others were missing it! But with the help of TDW's editor, it is now fixed as you can see here:

I also edited the effect a bit, now the trigger area is the whole conning tower, so big waves can cause splashes right in your face!

Cool, but wasn't there a mod by TheBeast (and one by sober IIRC), which fixed that already?

Originally Posted by privateer

I think I tried that in SH3 with the first Balloons hooked to ships.


I do recall flipping ships when balloons started swaying!

So the obj_pendulum controller didn't work?

I was also looking for a controller making its owner object motion or wind aligned, similar to what can be done with particle generators.

Originally Posted by privateer

What would work (even in SH3/4) is to do a keyframe animation thing to give them motion beyound just what they get from the attachment point.
We didn't know how to do that back then but it's easy to do now.

Yes, this would work for making balloons to swing nicely in the air, but about balancing ships' pitch and roll?

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

But you can do it in dat files, but not in GR2, right?

Originally Posted by privateer

Yes. It would need to be done in a dat file format. For now.

Okay, I think we can use static GR2 models for land-based balloons, and anmated dat models for shipborne balloons. What do you think Targor?

Originally Posted by privateer

I have figured out much of the GR2 animation format used in SH5 so it's just a matter of time and codeing skills to open those up to modding.
The Expotron thing might work for the whole deal. RAD hates that release but I see AOE3 people and many others still useing it and I get the feeling RAD gave up trying to stop that.

Fingers crossed on that. We wish you all the best with your work on the next GR2-animation-thingy. Keep us informed on its progress

Originally Posted by conus00

On a serious note: I am almost done going through my graphic files so you should get an updated version soon (hopefully) after this weekend.

Outstanding news. Can't wait for the release date!