Realistic Enemy AI?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Eesocks

Hi, recently returned to SH4 after a long break(almost 5 years)and was wondering if there are any mods to make the enemy AI more realistic. I.ve tried the latest TMO and RFB and both seem to be to have flawed Enemy AI.

You have to keep in mind that many things in the game are hard-coded, and nobody presently working on SH4 has the ability to change them. I also become frustrated by the AI (and other) limitations of the game. But consider, all the mega mods provide us a much, much better game than the stock article. Within the limits of the accessible game files, many aspects have been polished and improved.

[Eesocks]

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
On the plus side after tracking a Troop convoy on radar for 4 hrs (real time) I fired 6 torps (just to make sure) at a 18k liner doing 18 knts and 2600 range with a slight spread and hit with all 6, so a least I'm shooting straight! This was with 93% realism.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Eesocks

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
.

In TMO the ASW capabilities of Japanese escorts were pumped up to frankly unrealistic levels. They can find you and depth charge you with pinpoint accuracy without active sonar pinging sometimes. They are extremely aggressive. If you run into an elite crew on a Japanese escort you are dead unless you kill him. The reasoning behind it is that the unrealistic AI behavior results in more cautious player behavior. You are operating in fear for your life. Therefore you do not take stupid chances. You cannot just duck below the thermal layer, turn on the silent running and call it a day. Makes the sim more of a challenge. It probably does do a good job of simulating the overwrought caution that some US skippers practiced in the early months of the war.

In the actual event, Japanese ASW was mediocre to poor to downright non-existent in some cases through the real war. There is speculation that some veteran US skippers like Sam Dealy may have lost their lives and crew because they had become careless, and too contemptuous of lackluster Japanese ASW and methods.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Eesocks

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
On the plus side after tracking a Troop convoy on radar for 4 hrs (real time) I fired 6 torps (just to make sure) at a 18k liner doing 18 knts and 2600 range with a slight spread and hit with all 6, so a least I'm shooting straight! This was with 93% realism.

TMO may seem a lil tough, but once you learn the game, how to attack and evade, you'll find TMO fairly easy. Like most games, once you learn the AI, it's easier to defeat.

[Capt. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Eesocks

...having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around....

You have to remember that "early war" for the I.J.N. was 1937. By 1941 they were a highly seasoned force.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

You have to remember that "early war" for the I.J.N. was 1937. By 1941 they were a highly seasoned force.

Indeed, the Japanese were highly seasoned. They had practiced hard for years for a decisive battle with the US somewhere in the Central Pacific. Some of the their carrier pilots were already aces in the war in China, and they had gained valuable experience in shore bombardment and naval landings in the same conflict.

But ASW was always a blind spot with them. Escort management within the Imperial Navy was almost an incidental activity in prewar days. Those few officers charged with these matters handled it on a part time or indirect basis. There was no central agency for realistic and comprehensive maritime planning. Just a few months before Pearl Harbor, the only Japanese institution still conducting ASW instruction was the Navy Torpedo School, with a heavy emphasis on attacking with torpedoes, not defending against them. Even there, anti submarine research was the part time domain of one officer.

Like the US naval submariners, the Japanese ASW forces started the war pretty green.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Just a few months before Pearl Harbor, the only Japanese institution still conducting ASW instruction was the Navy Torpedo School, with a heavy emphasis on attacking with torpedoes, not defending against them. Even there.

They thought they could attack a sub that would almost certainly be underwater with torpedoes? If they had the technology of today sure but in the 40's?

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

They thought they could attack a sub that would almost certainly be underwater with torpedoes? If they had the technology of today sure but in the 40's?

I'm not speaking of DD torpedoes versus submarines. The IJN Torpedo school primarily taught the surface fleet cadets how to use torpedoes in battle against other surface warships. All Japanese destroyers, light cruisers and heavy cruisers were pretty liberally supplied with torpedoes. As part that instruction the torpedo school taught traditional ASW techniques as well ( Hydrophones, sonar, depth charges drills etc,)

Not long after hostilities commenced, the Torpedo School relinquished supervision over ASW matters to the Navy Mine School, an institution younger and less prestigious than the gunnery and torpedo schools. ASW instruction seems to have been the red-headed stepchild no one in the IJN wanted.

[Eesocks]

Over the last few weeks I've been using various combo's of mods. And having decided which ones to go for I started a new career out of Manilla in Dec 41'.
4 days into the patrol I got a conact, it was a lone merchant which I tracked for nearly 2 hrs to get in good position for an attack.
Weather was no wind or rain and light fog and there was no moon, I positioned my sub 2000 yards off it's track stopped rigged for silent at 3ft below periscope depth and waited. When the sonar operator announced it was at a bearing of 40degrees I raised the attack periscope to take a look and could just make out a vague shadow at that moment it turned on it's searchlights, speeded up and changed course, it knew I was there! how?.
I don't mind a challenge but that was ridiculous!

Definately time to dumb down the AI at least on the merchants

I was using TMO 2.5 OTC and some enviromental mods

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Eesocks

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
On the plus side after tracking a Troop convoy on radar for 4 hrs (real time) I fired 6 torps (just to make sure) at a 18k liner doing 18 knts and 2600 range with a slight spread and hit with all 6, so a least I'm shooting straight! This was with 93% realism.

Add on Run Silent Run Deep mod with TMO.Escorts are easier in early war(their early war ASW was pitiful) and improves over time.RSRD is a campaign mod, adds historical traffic, among many things.Keeps the toughness of TMO escorts but does mellow them out a little.Still have to watch yourself esp from late 1943 on but definitely gives most realistic sim.They are not all super escorts but still have to play smart.Also, try the SH 4 AI fix from the downloads section.This stops them from always using active sonar.They only go active when the detect you, instead of always being active(even if you dont hear the ping). This helps and adds more realism yet they are tough, esp once you are detected.

Lowering their skill to competent(2) will affect your gameplay, they will be a bit too easy.