Government Shutdown

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Yes I have always loved the Skyraider.They had some times over Laos i think I read some place that just the USAF lost 123 A-1 pilots in Nam course they had very hazardous jobs worth it though to save the skins of ground powders and downed airmen.

I think a USN Skyraider shot down a mig back in the old days of Vietnam, but back to "obamacare".

This is my question, "Does he really care"?

[TarJak]

No you want the Obama care thread. This is also not the Skyraider is a nice ride thread. Please keep OT.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Pardon me for what may be a stupid question - but wasn't the best time to fight the ACA when it was up for a vote?

Or voting for the guy who said he'd repeal it?

I'm just saying these were better days to fight. Not now, when the President won't sign a repeal, the Senate won't pass it, and 3/4 of the country opposes shutting down the government in order to hack at the ACA?

Not a stupid question at all.

Congress has two completely separate but related authorities when it comes to legislation.

1. Congress drafts, debates, writes, and approves legislation.
2. Congress appropriates funding needed to enact the legislation.

The success of the first does not mandate the second.

Congress is well within their rights to approve the AHA but not fund it. Not saying that is right or even a good thing to do, but it is legal according to the rules of congress.

Remember Kerry with his voting for something before he voted against it? This was what he was talking about. A senator can vote for a law and then vote against funding it. Not all that uncommon.

Since the GOP can't get rid of the ACA as that would require a vote from both houses, they are attacking it from a funding standpoint. All funding bills must originate from the House (article 7 section 1).

The executive branch can not spend any money that has not been appropriated by the congress. Only congress has the authority to borrow money or to spend money it does not have.

"best time to fight the ACA when it was up for a vote?"

Yes it is, and yes it was fought. It was the 111th congress that signed the ACA into law. That was during a time when the democratic party held majorities in both the Senate and the House. The GOP was simply outvoted.

Such is life when you have a representative form of government.

Now that the GOP has a majority in the House, they are enacting their political revenge.

This is what happens when there is a switch in majorities in congress. The new party in power proclaims that what the former party in power did was wrong and they feel they have a right to change things. Happens all the time.

Fortunately/unfortunately, the house controls the spending bills.

It is important to remember that the president can only ask congress to consider things, the president never tells congress.

We can emotionally accuse congress of not doing their job. But in actuality, they are doing exactly their job.

Some may agree with the house, some may disagree with the house. But the basis of our representative government is that the majority of the representatives elected by the people, get to decide.

The fact of the matter is that the GOP has a majority in the House.

My biggest gripe is that the Speaker is preventing a bill to be voted upon. I think it is scandalous that one person can prevent a vote -- normally the cornerstone of democracy. I wish that the House rules would allow the members to override a vote infringement action on the part of the speaker.

But the house makes the house rules. And since both parties take advantage of the rules, neither side is eager to change the rules.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

You could talk to my mother and grandmother then in Farsi.Where these friends Lur by any chance? Course they left before the whole mess in 1979 my father did some contract work there for Bell Helicopter.

I believe they are actually ethnic Kurds who are discriminated against in Iran and in Turkey. They engage in pecan and marble imports still ongoing today.

[Armistead]

This is all about upcoming elections, political moves. Obvious the GOP thinks it will work to their advantage in the coming ad wars, hoping to knock off a few Dems. So what if they ruin everyones vacation, hurt workers, it doesn't effect them.

My wife and I planned a few months ago to go to Gettysburg this weekend. We had to plan our business, etc., now, we're not going.
So we only spend a few thousand, motels, eating, a lil shopping, but that hurts business.

You can see how serious it can be for towns that thrive on national parks if this continues.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind..._fear_imp.html

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Armistead

This is all about upcoming elections, political moves. Obvious the GOP thinks it will work to their advantage in the coming ad wars, hoping to knock off a few Dems. So what if they ruin everyones vacation, hurt workers, it doesn't effect them.

If that is indeed the case, I think it's going to backfire on them. Even if it's not the case, it will probably backfire on them anyway. Which i see is a warning sign of things to come. As platypus noted,

"best time to fight the ACA when it was up for a vote?"

Yes it is, and yes it was fought. It was the 111th congress that signed the ACA into law. That was during a time when the democratic party held majorities in both the Senate and the House. The GOP was simply outvoted.

God only knows what legislation we'll see ramrodded in the future. Though I can make some educated guesses that it will involve reducing individual liberties and increases government oversight into all aspects of life.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If that is indeed the case, I think it's going to backfire on them. Even if it's not the case, it will probably backfire on them anyway. Which i see is a warning sign of things to come. As platypus noted,



God only knows what legislation we'll see ramrodded in the future. Though I can make some educated guesses that it will involve reducing individual liberties and increases government oversight into all aspects of life.

I agree it was a bad move, when someone is about to hang themselves, you don't take the noose away and put it around your own neck. The Obamacare train has arrived, it's here and not going away. The best that can be done is fix the mess it creates over the upcoming years. The Dems should be hanged for passing a bill that has so much crap in it that will only cost billions more to fix.

You know the old saying "don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining."
Obamacare cetainly doesn't smell like sweet rain.

[Bilge_Rat]

Day 4:

[TarJak]

Obama will miss the APEC Summit next week to keep focus on the shut down.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-0...summit/4999006

As he should.

[Betonov]

Keep the cartoons coming Bilge Rat

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I agree it was a bad move, when someone is about to hang themselves, you don't take the noose away and put it around your own neck. The Obamacare train has arrived, it's here and not going away. The best that can be done is fix the mess it creates over the upcoming years. The Dems should be hanged for passing a bill that has so much crap in it that will only cost billions more to fix.

You know the old saying "don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining."
Obamacare cetainly doesn't smell like sweet rain.

Honestly, I don't know enough about Obamacare at the moment to really say much about it; which is why for the most part, i didn't get into deep discussion in the Obamacare thread, aside from posting a video I thought was funny. I found said video while searching for a concise explanation as to everything obamacare entails. Unfortuantely, your not going to find that. All Information is blatantly slanted left or right.

However, this much I do know. Anything that Obama does is suspect. There are so many documented lies coming from him, it's unbelievable. You'll find 14 minute compilation videos about his blatant lies and flip flops. I think my favorite aside form him not wanting peoples guns, is the syria red line. That was such a blatant attempt to dodge responsibility for his own words, that I could not believe he would stand up in front of the world and attempt it. These lies and flip flops aren't a matter of opinion, they are fact. The video camera is non partisan and does not lie. There's plenty of video clips taken in context of what he was saying then, and what he's saying now, and they are opposite. My point being, the man has no credibility - at all.

I liken it to the classic case of the police detective who got caught in a lie, or took some expedient shortcuts in a case, and sent an innocent man to prison. What happens afterwords? ALL his cases are compromised and suspect because his integrity has been compromised. I hold integrity to a high regard. If you don't have integrity, you've got nothing. I don't care how much money you have in your bank account. If people cannot believe what you say, you have nothing. No amount of money will make an honest man out of a liar.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Keep the cartoons coming Bilge Rat

friday bonus 'toon:

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I just saw an interesting post on the comments section on a local news source here in Utah. It seemed well stated enough that I thought i'd repost it here.

Again, not my words, I just thought it an interesting read:

Nice article. I wish we could divide the country into 2 equal halves, and have the homeless, the entitlement fans, and gun control nuts in one side, and the religious nuts, pro gunners, and carry your own weight advocates have the other.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I agree it was a bad move, when someone is about to hang themselves, you don't take the noose away and put it around your own neck. The Obamacare train has arrived, it's here and not going away. The best that can be done is fix the mess it creates over the upcoming years. The Dems should be hanged for passing a bill that has so much crap in it that will only cost billions more to fix.

You know the old saying "don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining."
Obamacare cetainly doesn't smell like sweet rain.

The ACA should go on. Let it fail. Other laws have failed in the past.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Nice article. I wish we could divide the country into 2 equal halves, and have the homeless, the entitlement fans, and gun control nuts in one side, and the religious nuts, pro gunners, and carry your own weight advocates have the other.

Where does everyone else go then?