Voyager 1 officially in interstellar space

Skybird · 09-12-13, 05:15 PM

Vienna,

Imagine mankind to exist not for just 50-100 thousand years, but 10 million years. Imagine we did not exterminate ourselves, and sued thew time to constantly grow our knowledge and scientific understanding and technical capabilities. We poeple of the 21st century probably would not even recognize their technology as "technology", it probably would either miss our perception completely, or would perceive it as complete magic.

And hostility: am I "hostile" when stepping onto an ant when walking in the woods? Am I expressing "hostility" towards cattle when slaughtering cattle and eating it? Or using a rabbit in the lab? Is it hostile when the wolf hunts and kills the deer or sheep?

All your reasoning, vienna, is tremendously proving my point. It is arguing from a purely anthropomorphic standpoint, if I may out it this way. Extrapolating standards about reasonability, good and evil from a human standards and projecting it onto the rest of the galaxy.

I say that right this does not make sense. Or to be more precise: we have no clue whether it could make sense, now, or in the future. The term "alien" here implies a level of strangeness and the unknown that ends any reason for and purpose of formulating assumptions. The human scaling and standards have to be left behind completely. And the question nsi whether we can do that.

There is a reason why Arthur C. Clarke once said, or was it Isaac Asimov, I am not certain, that if we ever meet an alien intelligence between the stars, on a foreign world or our own, or between the stars - we probably would neither recognize it, nor would we recognize the condensate of its "scientific" (their closest equivalent of) and technical (their closest equivalent of) knowledge and abilities. Like the ant on the forest's floor is not aware of our presence, and us observing it, and us putting it into a lab and an artificial labyrinth where it builds its nest. Even if we want, we cannot communicate with the ant. It's mind complexity is much below ours.

Our limit lies in that for us only a reality makes sense in which we can reason about it only in the terms and scientific concepts we are familiar with. Recognising the alien life and intelligence and its abilities and motivations maybe would have us leaving our human nature behind as a necessary precondition!

Let's do not ignore that your scientific understanding and methodology NEVER formulates the final, the last, the ultimate truth about something, but formulates theories. And it is the nature of theories that they are preliminary. Theories are the nature and essence of science. We should be careful to be certain that they explain the universe to us in full. They do not, they cannot, and most likely they never will. Only mathematics allow us to go beyond the limits of our perceiving awareness of the total reality. It is the only tool we know of where by using something of finite reach a precise image of the infinite can be formed.

As far as we know, that is.

One could turn religious when thinking about these things...

09-12-13, 05:15 PM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,665 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Vienna, Imagine mankind to exist not for just 50-100 thousand years, but 10 million years. Imagine we did not exterminate ourselves, and sued thew time to constantly grow our knowledge and scientific understanding and technical capabilities. We poeple of the 21st century probably would not even recognize their technology as "technology", it probably would either miss our perception completely, or would perceive it as complete magic. And hostility: am I "hostile" when stepping onto an ant when walking in the woods? Am I expressing "hostility" towards cattle when slaughtering cattle and eating it? Or using a rabbit in the lab? Is it hostile when the wolf hunts and kills the deer or sheep? All your reasoning, vienna, is tremendously proving my point. It is arguing from a purely anthropomorphic standpoint, if I may out it this way. Extrapolating standards about reasonability, good and evil from a human standards and projecting it onto the rest of the galaxy. I say that right this does not make sense. Or to be more precise: we have no clue whether it could make sense, now, or in the future. The term "alien" here implies a level of strangeness and the unknown that ends any reason for and purpose of formulating assumptions. The human scaling and standards have to be left behind completely. And the question nsi whether we can do that. There is a reason why Arthur C. Clarke once said, or was it Isaac Asimov, I am not certain, that if we ever meet an alien intelligence between the stars, on a foreign world or our own, or between the stars - we probably would neither recognize it, nor would we recognize the condensate of its "scientific" (their closest equivalent of) and technical (their closest equivalent of) knowledge and abilities. Like the ant on the forest's floor is not aware of our presence, and us observing it, and us putting it into a lab and an artificial labyrinth where it builds its nest. Even if we want, we cannot communicate with the ant. It's mind complexity is much below ours. Our limit lies in that for us only a reality makes sense in which we can reason about it only in the terms and scientific concepts we are familiar with. Recognising the alien life and intelligence and its abilities and motivations maybe would have us leaving our human nature behind as a necessary precondition! Let's do not ignore that your scientific understanding and methodology NEVER formulates the final, the last, the ultimate truth about something, but formulates theories. And it is the nature of theories that they are preliminary. Theories are the nature and essence of science. We should be careful to be certain that they explain the universe to us in full. They do not, they cannot, and most likely they never will. Only mathematics allow us to go beyond the limits of our perceiving awareness of the total reality. It is the only tool we know of where by using something of finite reach a precise image of the infinite can be formed. As far as we know, that is. One could turn religious when thinking about these things... __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.