Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds'

[Sammi79]

A new report pins chemical attack on Assad (Al-Jazeera news)

!warning! - briefly shows the original video of the victims in the hospital.



In the interview an American expert explains his views on the design and capacity of the weapons after looking at the photographic evidence.

I'm not sure exactly when this next video surfaced, it is totally unverifiable by me in any way, but I found it interesting:



that at ~1.32 the stabilizer fin being held by a disembodied hand in the top left corner looks incredibly similar in design and proportion to the photographic evidence of the rockets used in the most recent chemical attack. Note also the size of the blue cylinder that I assume would carry the munitions packed round the dispersal charge. Granted the ones used in the recent attack are larger.

That is not to say that this video couldn't have been faked by either side, I think you'd have to be a bit simple to be filming it in the first place.

But those weapons don't look very advanced to me.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

A new report pins chemical attack on Assad (Al-Jazeera news)

So is it the American expert that pins the blame on Assad?

The French did it 2 - 3 days ago.

Sorry, i don't click on youtube links (no offense to you).

EDIT: Western Intelligence Agencies. Ok.

Rockets carrying 50 times more nerve agent then first thought.

So how does this pin the blame on Assad? By the amount used.
Because the reasoning is that the Rebels wouldn't have that much nerve gas to begin with?

And after checking out the youtube comments. it's getting a hammering.
Propaganda. No real evidence. All fair points.

[Skybird]

Immediate concerns regarding Iran?

Swarming speedboats in the gulf flooding Navy defences. Mines in the strait of Hormuz. Attacks on soft targets in Iraq. Strikes in Afghanistan. Hezbollanian rumble from Lebanon. Missiles on Israel.

The Iranian F-14s honestly I do not have on my list of prominent threats anymore. Are they even operational anymore? I imagine they are easy to track once they are airborne. Just follow the trail of spareparts falling from them.

Implications: Turkey drawn deep into military conflict. Kurdish upraise spreading from Syria and Iraq to Turkey and Iran. Israel being drawn into it. Jordan toppling. Saudi regime challenged by unrest. Gulf regimes threatened by unrest.

The only positive variable: Egypt's return to fighting the influence of the MB.

[Oberon]

IIRC Irans F14s haven't flown in a while, certainly not en masse, spares are a bit of a problem and the sanctions have hit them hard, the Iranian airforce is not in good shape, but it could certainly put up a couple of fighters, 29s most likely, but they wouldn't cope very well against the USAF, not in a direct one on one situation. So I don't think they'd put themselves in that situation where they would have to directly confront the USAF.
Asymmetrical warfare is a possibility, but we thought Saddam would do that and he didn't, so it's 50/50, after all in the immortal words of Condie Rice, 'Iran is not Iraq'.

[Feuer Frei!]

Iran has Mig 29's, F-5's and a few Mirage F1's.

Mirage F1:

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

So is it the American expert that pins the blame on Assad?

Sorry, i don't click on youtube links (no offense to you).

I only put that as the title of the news piece itself. Don't worry, the irony was not lost on me.

If you don't want to look at them, that's fine. The news piece was a link from the Guardian website, if that makes any difference. As I warned it is ultimately depressing anyway - and it is not my intent to tug at heart strings I leave that to the global media.

The point is, Camorons main argument (which mimics that from US/FR/DE admins amongst several others) is that the weapons are too big and/or complex for the FSA+associates to have in their arsenal. I suppose they would ask us to trust their intelligence about exactly what these 'rebels' capabilities and equipment are. Maybe they are just looking at their receipts...

I just wanted to point out that the photographic evidence for the used rockets in the relevant attack showed weapons with no apparent degree of complexity at least non greater than very slightly smaller allegedly home made versions. So you need a bigger gun or maybe a tube launcher of some sort.

The whole situation is completely absurd. Do the leaders of our nations have any credibility left? is there any way we can trust them on this vague circumstantial deduction? Is there the faintest possibility that this time they are telling the truth? Not excluding Putin of course, though currently he does a much better job of at least appearing rational.

Something needs to change badly. Not over there in Syria, but here in our countries.

And now, they are just beginning to know that we know.
[edit] We really need to keep our eyes on our own countries and leaders if we really want to help the 'global' situation.

[MH]

The point is, Camorons main argument (which mimics that from US/FR/DE admins amongst several others) is that the weapons are too big and/or complex for the FSA+associates to have in their arsenal. I suppose they would ask us to trust their intelligence about exactly what these 'rebels' capabilities and equipment are. Maybe they are just looking at their receipts..

This claim is nonsense but I hardly believe it is the main evidence.

[Mittelwaechter]

Good edit, Sammi.

[MH]

Where is logic in attaching unusual device to airliner and crashing it in middle of new york when you got the whole airliner.
You don't have to be some crafty government conspirator to dismiss this idea.
For a crafty thinker you doing very badly here...

[Mittelwaechter]

Dowly



Any police officer who questions the husbands claim, the dead wife has felt of the stairs by accident, is doing his job. He may wonder about the stangulation marks and the deranged sleeping room.
So he becomes a CT - questioning the official statements of Mr Husband.
He will have the posibility to provide any evidence for his assumption, Mr Husband may be a liar and a murderer, because he is at the scene and gets all support to do his job.

Questioning and developing CTs is a good thing, while trying to uncover the truth.
We have only this, because we are not at the scene and we lack of support.
Even worse, we have the strong feeling (no evidence!) to fight against Mr Husband's brother, Police Comissioner Bad, who actively hinders us in revealing the story. He seems to abuse his power to destroy our reputation and to cover his brother's act.


I don't want to discuss 9/11, but just for the entertainment: check the second airplane, it has an unusual device attached to its belly. How comes?

Again, I have no evidence, but I'm 'sceptic'.

To answer your question about Bush: he wasn't the brightest light on the chandelier.
It would be great to know, when the appointment for the school visit was made.
What is more emotional but a caring president amongst children, while being attacked by some evil forces? I think (no evidence!) Bush was told to stay there, to stay cool and to comment neutral after the school event on the attacks.

Free speech and unchoreographed happenings were not his strong points.
(edit: better version, including "Their" cuts to hide the blooper)

Originally I simply stated "Al Qaeda" to be a database run by Osama iirc.

[Tchocky]

Oh God, let's not do this.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Oh God, let's not do this.

The troof is out there and the evidence is in the interwebs

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by MH

This claim is nonsense but I hardly believe it is the main evidence.

Would you like to tell me what Camorons main argument is then?

The evidence is:

1) Sarin was used, several times but this last one was significantly bigger

2) Satellite and trajectory analysis showing the origin of the rocket in a government controlled area as well as the target being rebel controlled.

3) Radio intercepts apparently indicating someone in Assads chain of command.

4) Figures of deaths that show remarkable inconsistency between nations.

I would like to know against those points;

1) Since the UN have yet to report, where did that evidence came from exactly? I would argue that due to the length of the investigation, it can not be as thorough and therefore reliable as the UN report. Especially since the Russian evidence submitted many months ago indicating homemade Sarin being smuggled in to the rebels is every bit as convincing. It is certainly more thorough.

2) Is there reasonable doubt that 'rebels' or their 'associates' may perform special operations inside government controlled territory?

3) Unverifiable, without weeks of voice analysis, and the original voice.

4) Again sources, such is the inconsistency.

Also if Assad has plenty of these weapons is there not a chance that some may have been stolen or captured by the rebels?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Oh God, let's not do this.

Actually is fun with those crtical thinkers who think for themselves .
Who are ready to buy any bull as long as it is not official... that stuff belongs to stupid sheeps after all.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

Since the UN have yet to report, where did that evidence came from exactly? I would argue that due to the length of the investigation, it can not be as thorough and therefore reliable as the UN report.

IIRC,
The UN report has 1 objective:
To show that Chemical weapons were used.
Not who used them.