Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds'

Underway? They are situated in Damascus, but thats about it.

They need to get access to be able to verify if Nerve gas (and that is what is alleged to have been used) was used. Which it is almost certainly the case.

So far, no access for them.

And as such is the situation they need the approval of the government and the various rebels, also whichever specific armed group holds that particular area and whichever specific armed groups hold the neighbouring areas.
It takes a lot of negotiating with a lot of groups to allow a bunch of foreigners to go poking around the neighbourhood in any degree of safety.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

And as such is the situation they need the approval of the government and the various rebels, also whichever specific armed group holds that particular area and whichever specific armed groups hold the neighbouring areas.
It takes a lot of negotiating with a lot of groups to allow a bunch of foreigners to go poking around the neighbourhood in any degree of safety.

Indeed.

Never mind about not letting them in because (possibly) you have something to hide.

[Feuer Frei!]

Under Analysis:

as a clearer picture begins to emerge of the alleged attack and its consequences, some experts say they are becoming more convinced that a nerve agent may have been used.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23806491

23 August 2013 Last updated at 01:22 GMT

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I think VX was possibly used. If I remember correctly it in sufficient dose causes paralysis in whole body and especially in muscles around lungs. Latter causes death by suffocation.

This is based completely on memory though so I maybe wrong... Its also possible that I mix up symptoms with some other nerve agent.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I think VX was possibly used. If I remember correctly it in sufficient dose causes paralysis in whole body and especially in muscles around lungs. Latter causes death by suffocation.

This is based completely on memory though so I maybe wrong... Its also possible that I mix up symptoms with some other nerve agent.

This will jog your memory perhaps?

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/vx/index.asp

As for other forms:

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencyp...des/nerve.html

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

This will jog your memory perhaps?

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/vx/index.asp

As for other forms:

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencyp...des/nerve.html

Thanks! It has been quite long time since I last read of this stuff.

[Skybird]

It is interesting to remember that there is some inside-Syria observer group - I forgot the name but it often gets mentioned in news reports when reporting from Iraq, I just read it this morning again - with known close ties to the rebels, that this group so far still is hesitant to confirm that there has been a chemical event at all.

Could be because they know it was not Assad, but their friends. Could be because they still have no final verdict. Could be the deliver the evidence right now while I'm typing. Could be that there indeed was no event. Well, an event it was, but maybe not what is claimed it was.

The inspectors in Syria right now, as far as I remember form the news have permission to go to three places, all of which are low in priority and possibility to create evidence against Assad. That is what I mean when laughing about politicians demand that Assad and the rebels should allow inspections. It reminds me of one scene from the movie "V Vendetta" where the masked man asks Natalie Portman whether she doesn't find it amusing herself that she asks a masked man who he is. That question is pointless in itself, and the demands to allow inspectors in are pointless in themselves. One could as well ask on TV who the bank robber is, and tell him that he should raise his hand voluntarily and hand himself over to the police. One could also declare crime illegal, and forbid lying. Certainly would help a lot.

[Sammi79]

A new report pins chemical attack on Assad (Al-Jazeera news)

!warning! - briefly shows the original video of the victims in the hospital.



In the interview an American expert explains his views on the design and capacity of the weapons after looking at the photographic evidence.

I'm not sure exactly when this next video surfaced, it is totally unverifiable by me in any way, but I found it interesting:



that at ~1.32 the stabilizer fin being held by a disembodied hand in the top left corner looks incredibly similar in design and proportion to the photographic evidence of the rockets used in the most recent chemical attack. Note also the size of the blue cylinder that I assume would carry the munitions packed round the dispersal charge. Granted the ones used in the recent attack are larger.

That is not to say that this video couldn't have been faked by either side, I think you'd have to be a bit simple to be filming it in the first place.

But those weapons don't look very advanced to me.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

A new report pins chemical attack on Assad (Al-Jazeera news)

So is it the American expert that pins the blame on Assad?

The French did it 2 - 3 days ago.

Sorry, i don't click on youtube links (no offense to you).

EDIT: Western Intelligence Agencies. Ok.

Rockets carrying 50 times more nerve agent then first thought.

So how does this pin the blame on Assad? By the amount used.
Because the reasoning is that the Rebels wouldn't have that much nerve gas to begin with?

And after checking out the youtube comments. it's getting a hammering.
Propaganda. No real evidence. All fair points.

[Skybird]

Immediate concerns regarding Iran?

Swarming speedboats in the gulf flooding Navy defences. Mines in the strait of Hormuz. Attacks on soft targets in Iraq. Strikes in Afghanistan. Hezbollanian rumble from Lebanon. Missiles on Israel.

The Iranian F-14s honestly I do not have on my list of prominent threats anymore. Are they even operational anymore? I imagine they are easy to track once they are airborne. Just follow the trail of spareparts falling from them.

Implications: Turkey drawn deep into military conflict. Kurdish upraise spreading from Syria and Iraq to Turkey and Iran. Israel being drawn into it. Jordan toppling. Saudi regime challenged by unrest. Gulf regimes threatened by unrest.

The only positive variable: Egypt's return to fighting the influence of the MB.

[Oberon]

IIRC Irans F14s haven't flown in a while, certainly not en masse, spares are a bit of a problem and the sanctions have hit them hard, the Iranian airforce is not in good shape, but it could certainly put up a couple of fighters, 29s most likely, but they wouldn't cope very well against the USAF, not in a direct one on one situation. So I don't think they'd put themselves in that situation where they would have to directly confront the USAF.
Asymmetrical warfare is a possibility, but we thought Saddam would do that and he didn't, so it's 50/50, after all in the immortal words of Condie Rice, 'Iran is not Iraq'.

[Feuer Frei!]

Iran has Mig 29's, F-5's and a few Mirage F1's.

Mirage F1:

[Mittelwaechter]

Good edit, Sammi.

[Mittelwaechter]

Dowly



Any police officer who questions the husbands claim, the dead wife has felt of the stairs by accident, is doing his job. He may wonder about the stangulation marks and the deranged sleeping room.
So he becomes a CT - questioning the official statements of Mr Husband.
He will have the posibility to provide any evidence for his assumption, Mr Husband may be a liar and a murderer, because he is at the scene and gets all support to do his job.

Questioning and developing CTs is a good thing, while trying to uncover the truth.
We have only this, because we are not at the scene and we lack of support.
Even worse, we have the strong feeling (no evidence!) to fight against Mr Husband's brother, Police Comissioner Bad, who actively hinders us in revealing the story. He seems to abuse his power to destroy our reputation and to cover his brother's act.


I don't want to discuss 9/11, but just for the entertainment: check the second airplane, it has an unusual device attached to its belly. How comes?

Again, I have no evidence, but I'm 'sceptic'.

To answer your question about Bush: he wasn't the brightest light on the chandelier.
It would be great to know, when the appointment for the school visit was made.
What is more emotional but a caring president amongst children, while being attacked by some evil forces? I think (no evidence!) Bush was told to stay there, to stay cool and to comment neutral after the school event on the attacks.

Free speech and unchoreographed happenings were not his strong points.
(edit: better version, including "Their" cuts to hide the blooper)

Originally I simply stated "Al Qaeda" to be a database run by Osama iirc.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Oberon

IIRC Irans F14s haven't flown in a while, certainly not en masse, spares are a bit of a problem and the sanctions have hit them hard, the Iranian airforce is not in good shape, but it could certainly put up a couple of fighters, 29s most likely, but they wouldn't cope very well against the USAF, not in a direct one on one situation. So I don't think they'd put themselves in that situation where they would have to directly confront the USAF.
Asymmetrical warfare is a possibility, but we thought Saddam would do that and he didn't, so it's 50/50, after all in the immortal words of Condie Rice, 'Iran is not Iraq'.

Iran only operates a dozen or so F-14s but those ones are actually quite decently maintained, they have also fitted them for Russian R-27 missiles.

One of the currently operational ones with the new camo pattern:

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Iran has Mig 29's, F-5's and a few Mirage F1's.

Mirage F1:

<snip>

Some of Iran's Mirages just got an overhaul at Shahid Nasser Habibi air base.