Barack Obama defends 'just war' using drones

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

None of what stated has helped the

What are you afraid of in the real "ghetto" crap hole? Why has Christie not cleaned up Newark? Will not help him politically no reason to address the ghetto?

Like any politician, they will not touch an inner city ghetto.

Pisses off the activists. Chicago and Detroit can be brought up as well, no politician cares about those cities.

I am not call Christie Jesus, just giving a moderate republican some creedence in a world of "Christian Sharia" tea baggers, and John "crybaby jobs,jobs,jobs" Boehner.

[GoldenRivet]

I've been to new jersey several times.

it has its nice areas, but on the whole, most of the entire state is a garbage heap.

I pray i never have to go back to that place.

the graffiti is really nice in the fall though

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Like any politician, they will not touch an inner city ghetto.

Pisses off the activists. Chicago and Detroit can be brought up as well, no politician cares about those cities.

I am not call Christie Jesus, just giving a moderate republican some creedence in a world of "Christian Sharia" tea baggers, and John "crybaby jobs,jobs,jobs" Boehner.

You keep touting Christie for 2016. Will DC improve, as well as the country, with another politician that will not touch the inner cities?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I've been to new jersey several times.

it has its nice areas, but on the whole, most of the entire state is a garbage heap.

I pray i never have to go back to that place.

the graffiti is really nice in the fall though

The western side towards PA is not bad at all. Countryside!

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I've been to new jersey several times.

it has its nice areas, but on the whole, most of the entire state is a garbage heap.

I pray i never have to go back to that place.

the graffiti is really nice in the fall though

You must have been up north, where New York has spilled it crap over onto us.

Come down the shore, there is more to Jersey than what ya see on the stinky Turnpike.

Belmar, NJ. I guarantee the sea air, and great nightlife will change your mean opinion. Meany!

[GoldenRivet]

I thought Cape May was decent.

I go where the work sends me.

The north half of the state is unpleasant.

Im looking at you Jersey City

specifically right at you Stegman Street

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I thought Cape May was decent.

I go where the work sends me.

The north half of the state is unpleasant.

Im looking at you Jersey City

specifically right at you Stegman Street

Drive down Martin Luther King boulevard for a real show.

Jersey City is so close to Newark it may as well be the same thing. Literally 5 minutes drive away, no bull

I am so sorry you had to see that...I got some stories from my drug filled youth, when I actually put myself into places like this.

Monmouth county south is safe, and beautiful.

Until you get to Camden, which is scuzzed up by Philly.

NJ gets a bad rap, but it is NYC ers and Phillies who overspill all of their crime into our suburb.


North Jersey stinks because New York city and its smog stinks us up. South Jersey stinks because Camden and Philly are gang ridden cesspits.

Central Jersey, Goldilocks. Just right.

[Stealhead]

Every state/city has its pleasant areas and its cess pools.

Even Utah, Salt Lake City has its gang banger drug dealing abstainers from drinking caffeine.

I think there is to some extent a reluctance to deal with ghetto areas it seems easier to just ignore them.

Not that much of this has anything to do with Hellfire equipped drones.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Every state/city has its pleasant areas and its cess pools.

Even Utah, Salt Lake City has its gang banger drug dealing abstainers from drinking caffeine.

I think there is to some extent a reluctance to deal with ghetto areas it seems easier to just ignore them.

Not that much of this has anything to do with Hellfire equipped drones.

If a white girl gets killed it is a huge story, if a few bangers off each other it is business as usual.

That is why we hear about the Natalie Halloways, and not the Shamequa Browns.

Look at all the attention Chicago gets, for the wrong reasons.

Some of these cats deserve a missile, but a trial by peers would be better.

I am all about justice, and letter of the law.

Obama and Holder got a little too power happy, and will now reap the hellfire.

(edit: is that discourse Takeda? don't want to offend a forum favorite)

[August]

You guys keep talking of big bombs and missiles but I think future attack drones will be the size of flies or smaller. You don't have to create a 30ft crater to kill someone and it almost always causes collateral damage when you do.

I also think Skybird is right about them being autonomous (subject to some sort of abort/recall signal of course). Imagine the ability to release a bunch of flies on the outskirts of a city and they all go find the jugular veing of their intended targets wherever they might be hiding. Self powered and solar regenerated they can wait for months on the side of a building or tree for their target to appear and when it does the drone activates and completes it's mission.

On the surveillance side this continued miniaturization in drone technology will eventually allow the operator to gain visual and audio (and other sensory) access to just about anywhere. If we can't stop cockroaches and other bugs from invading our living spaces we ain't gonna stop tiny drones. The only way to counter it would be to allow the use of counter technology such as signal jamming, drone detecting systems, even maybe my personal favorite hunter killer, anti-drone drones .

Times are a changing and it's going to be a challenge to preserve our rights and liberties.

[Skybird]

The book to read:

Daniel Suarez: Kill Decision. A thriller that goes slightly, just slightly, into science fiction. Autonomous drones meet ants' swarm intelligence: have a nice day.

Matches the issue talked of in here, but is not his best books. Much better are his first two, Demon, and Darknet, which belong together. Again, slightly Science Fiction, but slightly so only. The trend towards it, is there. - Suarez is a former software engineer and IT expert.

---

On people thinking that just replacing this politicians for another one - this time the right one, or replacing that party at the helm with a different one, the correct one: as long as this thinking is there, I know that there is not the smallest amount of hope. Politicians and parties must step aside, or they must be kicked aside. What the discussion compares to is a reasoning on whether it is better to have Malaria spreaded by black or grey mosquitos.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The way I understood POTUS is US citizen on foreign soil actively engaging in activity to harm US citizens is fair game for a drone. The citizenship renounced.

The government can not revoke the citizenship of a natural-born citizen. Naturalized citizens can have their citizenship revoked.

A natural-born citizen can choose to revoke their own citizenship but the government can't take it away from them.

Concerning the drones, I am having a hard time imagining that a person 10,000 miles away is posing an immediate and imminent threat to the US.

When it comes to using drones against US citizens, the Bush/Obama policy violates so many rights I can't wait for this to come up before the SCOTUS. And there is no way Obama can avoid responsibility.

[Tchocky]

Interesting chunk of the speech that I found to be the central decision-making problem at work here.

by narrowly targeting our action against those who want to kill us, and not the people they hide among, we are choosing the course of action least likely to result in the loss of innocent life. Indeed, our efforts must also be measured against the history of putting American troops in distant lands among hostile populations. In Vietnam, hundreds of thousands of civilians died in a war where the boundaries of battle were blurred. In Iraq and Afghanistan, despite the courage and discipline of our troops, thousands of civilians have been killed. So neither conventional military action, nor waiting for attacks to occur, offers moral safe-harbor. Neither does a sole reliance on law enforcement in territories that have no functioning police or security services – and indeed, have no functioning law.

It's a real no-good-option situation, made worse by the weird fact that people seem to have a different response to the word "drone" than "airstrike".

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Even Utah, Salt Lake City has its gang banger drug dealing abstainers from drinking caffeine.

HEY! No personal attacks! Leave me out of this!

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Platapus

When it comes to using drones against US citizens, the Bush/Obama policy violates so many rights I can't wait for this to come up before the SCOTUS. And there is no way Obama can avoid responsibility.

I really hope it does. Between this and the constant stream of news about how the FBI is always pushing for more and more online and telephone surveillance, we're getting to a very chilling point in history.