Barack Obama defends 'just war' using drones

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The way I understood POTUS is US citizen on foreign soil actively engaging in activity to harm US citizens is fair game for a drone. The citizenship renounced.

The government can not revoke the citizenship of a natural-born citizen. Naturalized citizens can have their citizenship revoked.

A natural-born citizen can choose to revoke their own citizenship but the government can't take it away from them.

Concerning the drones, I am having a hard time imagining that a person 10,000 miles away is posing an immediate and imminent threat to the US.

When it comes to using drones against US citizens, the Bush/Obama policy violates so many rights I can't wait for this to come up before the SCOTUS. And there is no way Obama can avoid responsibility.

[Tchocky]

Interesting chunk of the speech that I found to be the central decision-making problem at work here.

by narrowly targeting our action against those who want to kill us, and not the people they hide among, we are choosing the course of action least likely to result in the loss of innocent life. Indeed, our efforts must also be measured against the history of putting American troops in distant lands among hostile populations. In Vietnam, hundreds of thousands of civilians died in a war where the boundaries of battle were blurred. In Iraq and Afghanistan, despite the courage and discipline of our troops, thousands of civilians have been killed. So neither conventional military action, nor waiting for attacks to occur, offers moral safe-harbor. Neither does a sole reliance on law enforcement in territories that have no functioning police or security services – and indeed, have no functioning law.

It's a real no-good-option situation, made worse by the weird fact that people seem to have a different response to the word "drone" than "airstrike".

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Interesting chunk of the speech that I found to be the central decision-making problem at work here.



It's a real no-good-option situation, made worse by the weird fact that people seem to have a different response to the word "drone" than "airstrike".

QFT

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Platapus

When it comes to using drones against US citizens, the Bush/Obama policy violates so many rights I can't wait for this to come up before the SCOTUS. And there is no way Obama can avoid responsibility.

I really hope it does. Between this and the constant stream of news about how the FBI is always pushing for more and more online and telephone surveillance, we're getting to a very chilling point in history.

[garren]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Catfish]

Interesting that just of all those criticize Obama, who would have supported any right-wing hawk president doing the very same.

As asked before:
Would a republican president not have used drones, like they were used recently ?

The weapons industry along with some advisors and those 'special' services must be laughing hard, that just of all a democrat did what they intended to do anyway, and who now is being blamed for all, and by all.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Interesting that just of all those criticize Obama, who would have supported any right-wing hawk president doing the very same.

As asked before:
Would a republican president not have used drones, like they were used recently ?

The weapons industry along with some advisors and those 'special' services must be laughing hard, that just of all a democrat did what they intended to do anyway, and who now is being blamed for all, and by all.

My thoughts exactly. Mr. Redline is kind of a vacuum - but he is not guilty of just everything.

Originally Posted by Skybird

On people thinking that just replacing this politicians for another one - this time the right one, or replacing that party at the helm with a different one, the correct one: as long as this thinking is there, I know that there is not the smallest amount of hope. Politicians and parties must step aside, or they must be kicked aside. What the discussion compares to is a reasoning on whether it is better to have Malaria spread by black or grey mosquitos.

[Gerald]

Drones would I use on the sea, in order to pre-see weather changes instead of having a Doppler radar.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Would a republican president not have used drones, like they were used recently ?

I'd say probably not given the storm of criticism that would have unleashed upon him. My question is why do folks ignore a real Democrat example of this in favor of fictional Republican what-if?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

I'd say probably not given the storm of criticism that would have unleashed upon him. My question is why do folks ignore a real Democrat example of this in favor of fictional Republican what-if?

I don't think anyone is ignoring this, hence this thread discussion.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I don't think anyone is ignoring this, hence this thread discussion.

Well it just seems to me that the Lefts perpetual answer to their sides mistakes or malfeasance is to justify or excuse it by pointing out past republican transgressions, or in this case their potential for committing transgressions.

That's like trying to justify murdering your neighbor because someone else murdered their neighbor years ago.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

Well it just seems to me that the Lefts perpetual answer to their sides mistakes or malfeasance is to justify or excuse it by pointing out past republican transgressions, or in this case their potential for committing transgressions.

That's like trying to justify murdering your neighbor because someone else murdered their neighbor years ago.

I believe it is widely accepted that both sides are guilty of committing Tu quoque fallacies in their arguments when it serves them best. I can't recall anyone on this board ever claiming that only one "side" does it.

It would be an impossible claim to support in any case.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by August

I'd say probably not given the storm of criticism that would have unleashed upon him. My question is why do folks ignore a real Democrat example of this in favor of fictional Republican what-if?

I just say that i would understand the republicans criticizing the health care system, or any other management change that 'violates' their point of view or political stance, but republicans bashing Obama for keeping up Guantanamo and using drones seems a bit hypocritical.
And yes, i am very disappointed of him. I know the factions block each other in alomost everything, it seems party politics are more important than the wellbeing of the country.
Maybe we agree principally, if for other reasons

Platapus - what you said.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

P.S. i returned to put this formula at the end of my posts, because Abraham once said he liked it. I just remembered him. RIP