Creationist Explains How Humans Could Have Hunted The Tyrannosaurus Rex

[u crank]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I'm not saying that I would have it any other way, I'm simply saying that when "non-believers" talk about not wanting special exemptions for religious speech, this is often the kind of thing they're talking about: people who not only want the freedom to express their religious beliefs, but the freedom to be exempt from an open expression of disagreement with those beliefs, or from the fairly predictable consequences of stating something as a universal truth that simply cannot be backed up by anything other than "because I believe it."

This is not what I was talking about. I don't believe that any one should be exempt from criticism if they make their beliefs known. Period.

This is what I was talking about.

Originally Posted by Skybird

So: keep thy religion for thyself. Do not dare to bother others with it, or force it into the public, the education system, the state legislation, and so on. Keep it to thyself. Then it is your belief. If you become loud about it, it becomes propaganda. If you go public about it, it becomes politics. And be not fooled: creationism is about religion, about nothing else.

This seems to me to go beyond mere criticism of someone's beliefs. It appears that he wants to deny people the right to freedom of expression. If it isn't he made no attempt to say so.

Someone (may have been you) mentioned how it would feel for an atheist to not have the freedom to say out loud in public that he is an atheist.

I did say that. It was in response to the above quote.

-but as Skybird already noted most atheists don't make a point of publicly announcing their disbelief on a regular basis, in the average social interaction it typically only happens in response to someone else bringing the subject up for discussion.

Here I would have to disagree with you. Atheist's have websites, blogs, TV shows etc. They have organizations and they hold conventions. And they write books, some which have been best sellers. They are freely expressing their beliefs all the time. And they should be able to. Shouldn't every body have this right? Actually they do. It's the law in your country and mine as well as Skybirds. If he isn't saying that then I would apologize but he would have to clear the air in regards to his demands to keep it "to keep thy religion for thyself. Do not dare to bother others with it,"

In the realm of science it's even trickier, because science has definable standards. "I believe in God" vs. "I don't believe in God" is one thing and everyone may agree to disagree and part friends. But "I believe the Bible and have the science to back it up" is another thing entirely, if they can't back it up according to the standards that apply to scientific investigation they are not exempt from criticism because religious belief is also involved.

I believe there is a Creator being and I would call myself a Christian, but I am not what you would call a fundamentalist. I do not think that religion should be the basis for scientific thought. They are two completely different disiplines. Nor do I believe that the earth was created in six days. Nor do I believe that a human would have much of a chance against a T rex. I love science and try to keep up on the latest advancements. I miss my calling. I think I would look good in a lab coat.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Freedom of expression?

The churches built all over europe, as an example... are.. a form of freedom of expression by the believers?

i have rarely seen an atheist build some kind of... church or some such large protruding building.

because that would be "shoving our point of view into the face of the people living around you"

nor are there courses on how to become a good atheist at school... that young ones have to attend, no questions asked, no options given.
That would be "shoving our POV in the face of others".
church, religion, believers do that.


nor do nonbelievers have a head of nonbelievers, leading the pack.
nor do the nonbelievers have some sort of guidance book and a set of rules to follow lest ye rot in hell, scumbag!
That would be "shoving our POV in the face of others".
see the media coverage of the new Pope...

...shoved in my face for days without end, and barely a way to avoid it.
like a sickness that only time, and a focus on other things can cure.

nor do nonbelievers shove their nonbeliefs all over the globe by killiing believers for the good of their cause.
...i bet religious people still do that, all over the globe.

far as i can tell, nonbelievers see believers and simply do not care.
because nonbelievers mostly gave up believing for a reason, and therefor have made some sort of choice.

Religion... is the absence of choice. It gets in my face and on my nerves like Propaganda gets in the face of a North Korean Farmer.
has gotten in my face as a kid... religion based education, religion-based lifestyle, religion based rites, habits and whatnot.

religion has had its fair share of "Freedom of expression" with me.

...largely overstepping boundaries in a quite agressive fashion.

But news is good!

At least in the domain of building "(Christian) religion-in-our-face" churches... we are making progress.
A church not far from me was torn down because it was old, ground moved, and could not be repaired, it was simply not worth the hassle.
http://www.lessentiel.lu/fr/news/story/19402102

Mare Norstum...
http://www.heise.de/open/artikel/Mar...he-221951.html
a Christian Church re-used to support the new church of bits and bytes... google says hello.
still a church (from one malheur to another), but no bellringing, no propaganda except for students that are interested in visiting the place.


Belgium...
unused church converted to a shop for expensive stuff...
http://www.zonebattler.net/2008/08/2...und-zurueck-3/


freedom of expression is one thing - getting on the nerves and into the lives of people is another don't you think.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by u crank

I believe there is a Creator being and I would call myself a Christian,

Why don't you move to the Vatican, your natural homeland, you Buddhist Taliban? You certainly like stoning women to death, and commit genocide on all kafirs and gojims.

Ups, I am sorry, I am just a cowardly fencewalker, who doesn't dare to take a stand, and want to keep all doors open if I meet a deity after death...

I hope one day I will learn that binary thinking is the only true philosophy of the intellectual superior. Anything else is just dogma, indoctrination or sitting on a fence, nobody else who holds some thoughts has made up their mind.

666 Greetings, Reverend Penguin

[HundertzehnGustav]

we all will find out "in due time" if what we believe or do not believe is "da truth"

in this life or the next. :P

[August]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

we all will find out "in due time" if what we believe or do not believe is "da truth"

in this life or the next. :P

If the Atheists are right nothing happens in the afterlife. When we die that's it. No matter how much a person believed in God or didn't we all end up as worm bait.

On the other hand if theists are right then something will happen in the afterlife and the Atheists will find themselves with egg on their faces. Not to mention have to face some sort of fallout from an angry god over their rejection of him and their smug comments over the years about how stupid believers are.

[August]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

we all will find out "in due time" if what we believe or do not believe is "da truth"

in this life or the next. :P

If the Atheists are right then nothing happens in the afterlife. When we die that's it. A persons thoughts and life experiences vanish with the electrical impulses of the dead brain matter. No matter how much a person believed in God, or didn't, we all end up as worm bait and our passions, believes, likes and dislikes, arguments and debates are all left for the living to take up in their own minds if they choose to.

On the other hand if theists are right then something will happen in the afterlife and the Atheists will find themselves with egg on their faces. Not to mention probably have to face some sort of fallout from an angry god over their rejection of him and their smug comments over the years about how stupid believers are.

One or the other.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by August

On the other hand if theists are right then something will happen in the afterlife and the Atheists will find themselves with egg on their faces. Not to mention probably have to face some sort of fallout from an angry god over their rejection of him and their smug comments over the years about how stupid believers are.

and people who did good deeds all their life, but didn't believe will also rot in hell...

Also there are chances for the deists that they put their money on the wrong deity - or painted a wrong picture of them:

[August]

Originally Posted by Penguin

and people who did good deeds all their life, but didn't believe will also rot in hell...

Maybe I suppose but I was thinking more about the few minutes after death when one realizes that death wasn't actually The End of a persons conciousness.

Also there are chances for the deists that they put their money on the wrong deity - or painted a wrong picture of them:

That would truly be some cosmic justice wouldn't it?

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by August

Maybe I suppose but I was thinking more about the few minutes after death when one realizes that death wasn't actually The End of a persons conciousness.

That would actualy be good news for me.
I wish there was an afterlife. I'm just not convinced. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it eh ??

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by August

That would truly be some cosmic justice wouldn't it?

Well, at least the historical figure Jesus was certainly not the palest guy - if people's pigmentation didn't change in this area during the last 2000 years , but try explaing this to a bonehead...

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by August

If the Atheists are right then nothing happens in the afterlife. When we die that's it. A persons thoughts and life experiences vanish with the electrical impulses of the dead brain matter. No matter how much a person believed in God, or didn't, we all end up as worm bait and our passions, believes, likes and dislikes, arguments and debates are all left for the living to take up in their own minds if they choose to.

On the other hand if theists are right then something will happen in the afterlife and the Atheists will find themselves with egg on their faces. Not to mention probably have to face some sort of fallout from an angry god over their rejection of him and their smug comments over the years about how stupid believers are.

One or the other.

Pascals wager

If god is as all knowing as the theists claim - he would know that you were hedging your bets. Far from promoting the view that theistic belief is 'safer' rather it is an insulting description of people so weak they'd forgo pursuing the truth of the matter at the risk of an ethereal eggy face.

And I could not care for, respect, let alone worship a god who expected me to accept him without good reason that can be made clear to me, as opposed to faulty logic like that above. In the books, there are miracles, divine magic, visions, angels etc. otherwise, none of the characters in the stories would have believed.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

...he would know that you were hedging your bets

I agree he would know, but I wouldn't be hedging my bets because I actually believe that God exists. I live my life fully expecting to be judged by the creator on how I lived it once it ends.

[HundertzehnGustav]

what about if he judges you on how many infidels you killed?
maybe your expectations are wrong

maybe he judges you on how many children you have, or wether or not you made a contribution to keep your environment intact.

maybe he will judge you by things you do not even imagine.

which leads you to live a life you can only hope is right... and hope is not wrong.


maybe there is a god, but no judgement. maybe you "awake" in another life, another episode, another universe... as something different, someone different, barely able to remember your past, your previous life...

have fun expecting.
good luck in expecting the right thing. your chances of walking the righ path are slim at best.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by August

If the Atheists are right then nothing happens in the afterlife. When we die that's it. A persons thoughts and life experiences vanish with the electrical impulses of the dead brain matter. No matter how much a person believed in God, or didn't, we all end up as worm bait and our passions, believes, likes and dislikes, arguments and debates are all left for the living to take up in their own minds if they choose to.

On the other hand if theists are right then something will happen in the afterlife and the Atheists will find themselves with egg on their faces. Not to mention probably have to face some sort of fallout from an angry god over their rejection of him and their smug comments over the years about how stupid believers are.

One or the other.

Or something in between...
We "know" exactly SQUAT about whats going on after death.
"KNOW" not "Believe, hope..." none of that near death experience.

therefor talking and projecting what will happen... is a waste of time.

Not to mention probably have to face some sort of fallout from an angry god over their rejection of him and their smug comments over the years about how stupid believers are.

see what i mean. these are things you believe... an evil, mad god.
i aint even buying that.

[MH]

and people who did good deeds all their life, but didn't believe will also rot in hell...

only if you a (not)Christian...i think but don't really know what is Christianity stance on this.