The victim is guilty - Page 2

AVGWarhawk · 04-10-13, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

In an ideal world, the girl here would have to be heard on the penalty she imagines for those who raped her. The four would be sentenced also to later work in their lives and pay her a yearly compensation that covers all costs for therapy and other consequences of the rape, plus some additional "penalty fee". The false friends mocking her and turning away, would be sued for mobbing and character assassination, and also need to pay a one-time compensation to the girl. Whether the raping boys would additionally serve prison time or would undergo a corporal public punishement I would decide on grounds of what the girl says on that option.

In an ideal world. [sigh]

Those involved from the beginning, bullied and participated in the ultimate demise of this young lady will have that on their conscience for the rest of their lives. It provides some solace. These young kids my not think about it now but later in life...this will haunt them.

Feuer Frei! · 04-10-13, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

this will haunt them.

One can only hope.

frau kaleun · 04-10-13, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

One can only hope.

Agreed. Sadly I think there are some people who can do stuff like that and never feel a shred of conscious remorse over it.

AVGWarhawk · 04-10-13, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Agreed. Sadly I think there are some people who can do stuff like that and never feel a shred of conscious remorse over it.

Yes, those that are less than human. These type do exist. Most find themselves in trouble with the law at some point in their lives. People like this spurn programs such as NCI, Criminal Minds and the like.

Wolferz · 04-10-13, 10:03 AM

Here where I live the incarcerated DO pay for their room and board, either while incarcerated or after release. Do the crime, serve the time but no free ride. That's the way it should be.

Also in this neighborhood suicidal thoughts are treated very seriously. If the individual doesn't voluntarily seek help they can be forced into treatment by filling out a 302 form at any local hospital. Once the county official signs off on the form it is taken to the nearest LEO to be enacted.
The wife and I were forced to do this with her son. I'm still not sure if he was actually contemplating ending himself or was just terrorizing his mother with claims to do so for whatever twisted reason.
He spent a whole day mimicking slashing his wrists with a guitar pick to the point of creating closed cuts across both wrists. He wasn't happy when the officer arrived and he discovered that he wasn't going to get what he really wanted, which is still a mystery to us. Instead he got ten days in a psyche ward for his trouble and nearly wore out his welcome in our home. It was the threat of putting him in the street to fend for himself after the hospital stay that finally snapped him out of what was eating at him.

This young lady succeeded where she shouldn't have and somebody definitely dropped the ball. As for the circumstances that lead to this tragedy I won't comment on because you can't confirm or deny actions you didn't witness.
Hindsight solves nothing but can be a preventative endeavor in the future.

04-10-13, 10:17 AM

Women who go out and get drunk then get raped must undertand that they are responsible for their actions and it is they who have put themselves in that situation....Sorry to bring up the opinions the OP has previously stated on this forum regarding this subject but it strikes me as highly hypocritical.
If I recall correctly it also covers women who walk into a bar wearing a "sexy" dress

AVGWarhawk · 04-10-13, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Women who go out and get drunk then get raped must undertand that they are responsible for their actions and it is they who have put themselves in that situation....Sorry to bring up the opinions the OP has previously stated on this forum regarding this subject but it strikes me as highly hypocritical.
If I recall correctly it also covers women who walk into a bar wearing a "sexy" dress

I don't follow. Woman gets drunk. Her fault. She is fair game for whatever then?

Or, this was the OP opinion in another thread?

04-10-13, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Or, this was the OP opinion in another thread?

Indeed, that was the opinion he has previously stated on the matter.

AVGWarhawk · 04-10-13, 11:09 AM

Odd outlook on the situation if so. Was something missed in translation?

Buddahaid · 04-10-13, 11:36 AM

Don't get me wrong it's a tragic story, if true and if the whole story. So far that is all it is and a lot of you are letting your emotions fill in all the gaps that have no factual basis.

I do not agree with Tribesman over her being fair game for getting drunk in the first place but none of us were there, none of us have seen the photo, none of us have interviewed the witnesses, and therefore none of us can make any valid judgement.

Platapus · 04-10-13, 11:48 AM

A politically incorrect observation not necessarily associated with this thread's topic

It is interesting that if a women gets drunk, has sexual activity and later objects, the law presumes that if she had sexual activity, she is not responsible (did not give consent) due to impairment (being drunk) and therefore is not responsible. i.e. she was raped.

But at the same time, if a man gets drunk, and has sexual activity, but the woman objects afterward, the law presumes that if he had sex, that he IS responsible and his impairment (being drunk) is not valid and he is therefore accountable. i.e. he is a rapist.

So if two people get drunk and have sex, excusing accountability due to impairment of judgement (being drunk) only applies to the woman and not the man.

That's a little one sided.

Rape, like other violent crimes, is a horrible thing and no victim ever deserves it. But when alcohol (or drugs) becomes involved, the rules seem to change and not change equally.

In the eyes of the law, a drunk woman does not give consent but a drunk man does.

I don't know what the answer is, or should be other than people should not get drunk (that's pretty realistic).

AVGWarhawk · 04-10-13, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Don't get me wrong it's a tragic story, if true and if the whole story. So far that is all it is and a lot of you are letting your emotions fill in all the gaps that have no factual basis.

What gaps sir? This is not the first or last we will see a young person taking their life over demeaning photos posted on the internet and bullying. It is the same story every time. We have see both sides in similar instances. We are not missing any side of the story here. How many stories of humiliated kids who commit suicide do we need to read to ascertain this story is not different?

Quote:

I do not agree with Tribesman over her being fair game for getting drunk in the first place but none of us were there, none of us have seen the photo, none of us have interviewed the witnesses, and therefore none of us can make any valid judgement.

That is not Tribeman's thoughts on the issue.

Safe-Keeper · 04-10-13, 11:58 AM

Quote:

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

Every time rape and SA in general is the topic at least one answer always begin with "but"

, usually continuing with an attempt to derail the discussion into how rape is the victim's fault/responsibility. I see this thread has both already.

As another poster pointed out, though, I don't know what looking at this from "both sides" would achieve. Sure there's always a deeper layer of circumstances and human psyche and anecdotes, but a girl was raped, and then had her photo spread, and then committed suicide.

This is tragic and disgusting. Whatever the "other side" might be, it's guaranteed not to be sufficient to mitigate anything. It's like asking for the "other side" of a story about a suicide bomber blowing up a school bus full of elementary school children.

Quote:

Women who go out and get drunk then get raped must undertand that they are responsible for their actions and it is they who have put themselves in that situation....Sorry to bring up the opinions the OP has previously stated on this forum regarding this subject but it strikes me as highly hypocritical.

Does this apply to everyone who is drunk, or just women who are raped? If I see you in a bar drunk, am I allowed to beat you up, pickpocket you or wreck your car?

Quote:

If I recall correctly it also covers women who walk into a bar wearing a "sexy" dress

Fail, both on a moral and factual basis. Go sit in the naughty corner until you're sorry

.

Buddahaid · 04-10-13, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Every time rape and SA in general is the topic at least one answer always begin with "but"

.

As another poster pointed out, though, I don't know what looking at this from "both sides" would achieve. Sure there's always a deeper layer of circumstances and human psyche and anecdotes, but a girl was raped, and then had her photo spread, and then committed suicide.

This is tragic and disgusting. Whatever the "other side" might be, it's guaranteed not to be sufficient to mitigate anything. It's like asking for the "other side" of a story about a suicide bomber blowing up a school bus full of elementary school children.

You accept that she was raped with no evidence as if that is a given. Is it? Then prove it the authorities couldn't.

AVGWarhawk · 04-10-13, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

You accept that she was raped with no evidence as if that is a given. Is it? Then prove it the authorities couldn't.

Quote:

, a photograph of Rehtaeh being raped was taken during the night and circulated around Cole Harbour District High School three days later.

Anything else?

04-10-13, 10:03 AM	#20
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Here where I live the incarcerated DO pay for their room and board, either while incarcerated or after release. Do the crime, serve the time but no free ride. That's the way it should be. Also in this neighborhood suicidal thoughts are treated very seriously. If the individual doesn't voluntarily seek help they can be forced into treatment by filling out a 302 form at any local hospital. Once the county official signs off on the form it is taken to the nearest LEO to be enacted. The wife and I were forced to do this with her son. I'm still not sure if he was actually contemplating ending himself or was just terrorizing his mother with claims to do so for whatever twisted reason. He spent a whole day mimicking slashing his wrists with a guitar pick to the point of creating closed cuts across both wrists. He wasn't happy when the officer arrived and he discovered that he wasn't going to get what he really wanted, which is still a mystery to us. Instead he got ten days in a psyche ward for his trouble and nearly wore out his welcome in our home. It was the threat of putting him in the street to fend for himself after the hospital stay that finally snapped him out of what was eating at him. This young lady succeeded where she shouldn't have and somebody definitely dropped the ball. As for the circumstances that lead to this tragedy I won't comment on because you can't confirm or deny actions you didn't witness. Hindsight solves nothing but can be a preventative endeavor in the future. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

04-10-13, 11:36 AM	#25
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,331 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Don't get me wrong it's a tragic story, if true and if the whole story. So far that is all it is and a lot of you are letting your emotions fill in all the gaps that have no factual basis. I do not agree with Tribesman over her being fair game for getting drunk in the first place but none of us were there, none of us have seen the photo, none of us have interviewed the witnesses, and therefore none of us can make any valid judgement. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

04-10-13, 11:48 AM	#26
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,382 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	A politically incorrect observation not necessarily associated with this thread's topic It is interesting that if a women gets drunk, has sexual activity and later objects, the law presumes that if she had sexual activity, she is not responsible (did not give consent) due to impairment (being drunk) and therefore is not responsible. i.e. she was raped. But at the same time, if a man gets drunk, and has sexual activity, but the woman objects afterward, the law presumes that if he had sex, that he IS responsible and his impairment (being drunk) is not valid and he is therefore accountable. i.e. he is a rapist. So if two people get drunk and have sex, excusing accountability due to impairment of judgement (being drunk) only applies to the woman and not the man. That's a little one sided. Rape, like other violent crimes, is a horrible thing and no victim ever deserves it. But when alcohol (or drugs) becomes involved, the rules seem to change and not change equally. In the eyes of the law, a drunk woman does not give consent but a drunk man does. I don't know what the answer is, or should be other than people should not get drunk (that's pretty realistic). __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-10-13, 10:17 AM	#21
Tribesman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Women who go out and get drunk then get raped must undertand that they are responsible for their actions and it is they who have put themselves in that situation....Sorry to bring up the opinions the OP has previously stated on this forum regarding this subject but it strikes me as highly hypocritical. If I recall correctly it also covers women who walk into a bar wearing a "sexy" dress

04-10-13, 11:09 AM	#24
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,281 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Odd outlook on the situation if so. Was something missed in translation?