Save game crash important discovery!

rudewarrior · 03-28-13, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Cool heads gentleman...we are all here to help one another.

Agreed and thank you!

Out.

brett25 · 03-28-13, 05:36 PM

thanks jimbuna...aye aye captain

Jimbuna · 03-28-13, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudewarrior

Agreed and thank you!

Out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett25

thanks jimbuna...aye aye captain

Resuming patrol

brett25 · 03-28-13, 06:13 PM

thanks again Jim

now that we are back at sea, i suppose it would be helpful if people could report in as marco did and lets see if there a consensus around weather the save game crash is connected to a ship sinking, whatever the exact cause, i think this is a step that will be quite helpful. There are several on this forum whose understanding of the game is quite deep and perhaps in time this may become worthy of their notice.

This issue is such a show stopper for many that it deserves whatever attention can be leveled at it. Of course Ialso know this topic has been hashed out many times before.....

you cant imagine how excited I was when I got this to work, its nothing more than that

***as an aside to those interested, in case i wasn't as clear as i could have been:

the save game would crash 100% of the time once the ship in question has sunk. I repeated this many time with many different attempts to fix it (including re installs, mod removals, registry clean up), then I pointed my game to another install i have of J scones most excellent SH3 Commander (i cant imagine playing SH3 with out it) and then went back into the game from a good save, waited for the ship to sink and tried a save...this worked...then i dove to 45 meters and did a save...it worked...now the game seem stable again.....could it be a coincidence? yes it could, or it could be something else

that is all i have to report

03-29-13, 02:51 PM

This is my take on the whole thing. It appears crashes will always occur right after a save after a ship has sunk.

If this is so, I think there is a flaw in the game programming here, as I think the program is confused as to whether the ship is afloat or is sunk.

I think the error occurs in the .sav files in the SH3 folder in Documents.

These files are save specific and tell the program what is happening at the time of the save, instead of just reloading the campaign layers and assuming everything is vanilla and no ships are sunk.

What I think happens here is that the sunk or sinking ship is not written correctly in the .sav file. Thus the ctd. I think in the code it is written as being in pergatory, not sunken not still afloat. Thus the confusion between the engine and the save.

Of course ctd will happen for many reasons, like little ram, but I think the sunken ship issue is a problem with how the engine outputs the .sav files. Because it reads the .sav file, which contradicts with the campaign layer saying there is a ship there and its still afloat. But if its in the process of sinking or just after sunk, perhaps the engine can't understand that.

Can we find the mentioning of the sinking ship with hex editor in the .sav files?

However, as a control, I'd suggest everyone to remove all the mods for testing. Because if this specific ctd occurs during vanilla, then we need to be sure of that and attack the issue from there knowing no other mods create this ctd.

Marko_Ramius · 03-29-13, 05:03 PM

So, i removed those mods :

- LifeBoats&Debris_V4
- GWX-Ehanced Damaged Effects
- Torpedo Damage Final V.2.0
- TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_V4.0_SH3
- TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_V1_4_SH3
- SH4StyleFlags_GWX

and i loaded a good saved game from my last test patrol (with 1 convoy).
Game loaded fine as expected, and i moved my sub in position and wait for the targets ; i sunk one ship and 2 was wounded and sunk a bit later. I evade the convoy deep and slow, and when they get some distance, i surfaced the boat. No visual contact ; I let the sub moving away from them a few miles more and saved the game.

I quit SH3 and reload and guess what --> Game loaded fine

Of course, i should begin again the thing for confirmation, but still, it's a big step forward (in my particular case, maybe), this is the first saved game (after sinking ships) who works ok since a lot of hours/days/week of playing !!

So, i will now re-activate mods, one by one, and repeat the shoot on this convoy. i will of course let you know the results.

Jimbuna · 03-29-13, 05:08 PM

^ Best course of action.

03-29-13, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marko_Ramius

So, i removed those mods :

- LifeBoats&Debris_V4
- GWX-Ehanced Damaged Effects
- Torpedo Damage Final V.2.0
- TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_V4.0_SH3
- TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_V1_4_SH3
- SH4StyleFlags_GWX

and i loaded a good saved game from my last test patrol (with 1 convoy).
Game loaded fine as expected, and i moved my sub in position and wait for the targets ; i sunk one ship and 2 was wounded and sunk a bit later. I evade the convoy deep and slow, and when they get some distance, i surfaced the boat. No visual contact ; I let the sub moving away from them a few miles more and saved the game.

I quit SH3 and reload and guess what --> Game loaded fine

Of course, i should begin again the thing for confirmation, but still, it's a big step forward (in my particular case, maybe), this is the first saved game (after sinking ships) who works ok since a lot of hours/days/week of playing !!

So, i will now re-activate mods, one by one, and repeat the shoot on this convoy. i will of course let you know the results.

I think it was sucessful because you left the rendering radius of the sinking ship. SH3 renders ships and 3d models within 40km of the uboat, I think. Even though it grabs the initial data from the campaign layer upon mission load. It's not rendered until you are 40km within the 3d object.

So, I think you were out of the rendering radius of that sinking ship, and thus the save didn't have to mention it. Therefore, good working save and no ctd.

Because now I bet if you load your save and go back to the sinking ship location, the ship will be there again. Because sunken ships only stay sunken within the rendering radius. If you leave that radius and come back, forcing the game to reread the data it pulled from the campaign layer, the ship will reapper good as new.

03-29-13, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marko_Ramius

So, i removed those mods :

- LifeBoats&Debris_V4
- GWX-Ehanced Damaged Effects
- Torpedo Damage Final V.2.0
- TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_V4.0_SH3
- TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_V1_4_SH3
- SH4StyleFlags_GWX

and i loaded a good saved game from my last test patrol (with 1 convoy).
Game loaded fine as expected, and i moved my sub in position and wait for the targets ; i sunk one ship and 2 was wounded and sunk a bit later. I evade the convoy deep and slow, and when they get some distance, i surfaced the boat. No visual contact ; I let the sub moving away from them a few miles more and saved the game.

I quit SH3 and reload and guess what --> Game loaded fine

Of course, i should begin again the thing for confirmation, but still, it's a big step forward (in my particular case, maybe), this is the first saved game (after sinking ships) who works ok since a lot of hours/days/week of playing !!

So, i will now re-activate mods, one by one, and repeat the shoot on this convoy. i will of course let you know the results.

Try to stay within viewing distance of the sinking ship when you save it too. This will help eliminate one possible issue.

Mittelwaechter · 03-28-13, 06:34 PM

Well - the save game bug is as old as the game itself.
I guess a later developed SH3 Commander is not responsible for the bug.

By the way - I don't use savegames on a regular basis, but when real life calls me I save and leave the game. It happens.
In all those years playing Vanilla, GWX or LSH - modded and/or tweaked by myself + running SH3 and Commander on three different computers - no such bug has yet occured to me.

I had and have SH3 problems with CTDs, GameExplorer, UAC or even my firewall - and this PatrolLogEditor doesn't work in my set up - but my save games do fire up.

I'm knocking on wood...

Marko_Ramius · 03-28-13, 07:52 PM

I did a complete reinstall of GWX 3, without installing SH3Cmdr.

Began a campaign in 2nd flotilla. I made several saves, with no sinking ships and with some after sinking 2 enemy ships.

Well, exactly the same issue : save game crash if i load the one in which i sunk targets.

The game saved before shooting load fine

So, in my install, it's not SH3Cmdr problem. I will investigate with the mods i have installed, it takes time

but it's weird because it's the few mods i was using in the past and all was ok.

brett25 · 03-28-13, 08:35 PM

ok Marko, thats interesting, well at least your issue is related to the sinking of a ship and thats exactly the issue I have as well...I can conceed that the Commander fix i suggested, although it appears to have fixed my issue, may not be the cause, and that's ok for now...but I at least want to know if more peole have crashes specifically due to ship sinking....

regarding mods, I have had many heavy mods installed and when the game is woking fine , there is never a save crash, and as stated earlier, when the game is working I can save in the middle of a batlle and at depths...but when the game is not workin (ie after I have sunk a ship), then no amount of fussing around will result in a good save.....

Marko_Ramius · 03-28-13, 09:08 PM

Yep, definitely something to do with sinking ships.

I tried again, but this time without one of the mods installed,and without hyperthreading (never knows ..).

Same thing : as long as i don't sink a target, game load ok ; but not after a hit ..

i'm lost ..

03-28-13, 05:36 PM	#2
brett25 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oakland CA, USA Posts: 737 Downloads: 570 Uploads: 0	thanks jimbuna...aye aye captain __________________ http://shmf.larsbundgaard.dk/index.p...1tn5&board=7.0

03-28-13, 06:13 PM	#4
brett25 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oakland CA, USA Posts: 737 Downloads: 570 Uploads: 0	thanks again Jim now that we are back at sea, i suppose it would be helpful if people could report in as marco did and lets see if there a consensus around weather the save game crash is connected to a ship sinking, whatever the exact cause, i think this is a step that will be quite helpful. There are several on this forum whose understanding of the game is quite deep and perhaps in time this may become worthy of their notice. This issue is such a show stopper for many that it deserves whatever attention can be leveled at it. Of course Ialso know this topic has been hashed out many times before..... you cant imagine how excited I was when I got this to work, its nothing more than that ***as an aside to those interested, in case i wasn't as clear as i could have been: the save game would crash 100% of the time once the ship in question has sunk. I repeated this many time with many different attempts to fix it (including re installs, mod removals, registry clean up), then I pointed my game to another install i have of J scones most excellent SH3 Commander (i cant imagine playing SH3 with out it) and then went back into the game from a good save, waited for the ship to sink and tried a save...this worked...then i dove to 45 meters and did a save...it worked...now the game seem stable again.....could it be a coincidence? yes it could, or it could be something else that is all i have to report __________________ http://shmf.larsbundgaard.dk/index.p...1tn5&board=7.0

03-29-13, 05:08 PM	#7
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,742 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ Best course of action. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-28-13, 06:34 PM	#10
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Well - the save game bug is as old as the game itself. I guess a later developed SH3 Commander is not responsible for the bug. By the way - I don't use savegames on a regular basis, but when real life calls me I save and leave the game. It happens. In all those years playing Vanilla, GWX or LSH - modded and/or tweaked by myself + running SH3 and Commander on three different computers - no such bug has yet occured to me. I had and have SH3 problems with CTDs, GameExplorer, UAC or even my firewall - and this PatrolLogEditor doesn't work in my set up - but my save games do fire up. I'm knocking on wood... __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

03-28-13, 08:35 PM	#12
brett25 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oakland CA, USA Posts: 737 Downloads: 570 Uploads: 0	ok Marko, thats interesting, well at least your issue is related to the sinking of a ship and thats exactly the issue I have as well...I can conceed that the Commander fix i suggested, although it appears to have fixed my issue, may not be the cause, and that's ok for now...but I at least want to know if more peole have crashes specifically due to ship sinking.... regarding mods, I have had many heavy mods installed and when the game is woking fine , there is never a save crash, and as stated earlier, when the game is working I can save in the middle of a batlle and at depths...but when the game is not workin (ie after I have sunk a ship), then no amount of fussing around will result in a good save..... __________________ http://shmf.larsbundgaard.dk/index.p...1tn5&board=7.0

03-29-13, 02:51 PM	#5
machiavelli Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	This is my take on the whole thing. It appears crashes will always occur right after a save after a ship has sunk. If this is so, I think there is a flaw in the game programming here, as I think the program is confused as to whether the ship is afloat or is sunk. I think the error occurs in the .sav files in the SH3 folder in Documents. These files are save specific and tell the program what is happening at the time of the save, instead of just reloading the campaign layers and assuming everything is vanilla and no ships are sunk. What I think happens here is that the sunk or sinking ship is not written correctly in the .sav file. Thus the ctd. I think in the code it is written as being in pergatory, not sunken not still afloat. Thus the confusion between the engine and the save. Of course ctd will happen for many reasons, like little ram, but I think the sunken ship issue is a problem with how the engine outputs the .sav files. Because it reads the .sav file, which contradicts with the campaign layer saying there is a ship there and its still afloat. But if its in the process of sinking or just after sunk, perhaps the engine can't understand that. Can we find the mentioning of the sinking ship with hex editor in the .sav files? However, as a control, I'd suggest everyone to remove all the mods for testing. Because if this specific ctd occurs during vanilla, then we need to be sure of that and attack the issue from there knowing no other mods create this ctd.

03-29-13, 05:03 PM	#6
Marko_Ramius Frogman Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Near Paris Posts: 303 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 0	So, i removed those mods : - LifeBoats&Debris_V4 - GWX-Ehanced Damaged Effects - Torpedo Damage Final V.2.0 - TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_V4.0_SH3 - TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_V1_4_SH3 - SH4StyleFlags_GWX and i loaded a good saved game from my last test patrol (with 1 convoy). Game loaded fine as expected, and i moved my sub in position and wait for the targets ; i sunk one ship and 2 was wounded and sunk a bit later. I evade the convoy deep and slow, and when they get some distance, i surfaced the boat. No visual contact ; I let the sub moving away from them a few miles more and saved the game. I quit SH3 and reload and guess what --> Game loaded fine Of course, i should begin again the thing for confirmation, but still, it's a big step forward (in my particular case, maybe), this is the first saved game (after sinking ships) who works ok since a lot of hours/days/week of playing !! So, i will now re-activate mods, one by one, and repeat the shoot on this convoy. i will of course let you know the results.

03-28-13, 07:52 PM	#11
Marko_Ramius Frogman Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Near Paris Posts: 303 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 0	I did a complete reinstall of GWX 3, without installing SH3Cmdr. Began a campaign in 2nd flotilla. I made several saves, with no sinking ships and with some after sinking 2 enemy ships. Well, exactly the same issue : save game crash if i load the one in which i sunk targets. The game saved before shooting load fine So, in my install, it's not SH3Cmdr problem. I will investigate with the mods i have installed, it takes time but it's weird because it's the few mods i was using in the past and all was ok.

03-28-13, 09:08 PM	#13
Marko_Ramius Frogman Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Near Paris Posts: 303 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 0	Yep, definitely something to do with sinking ships. I tried again, but this time without one of the mods installed,and without hyperthreading (never knows ..). Same thing : as long as i don't sink a target, game load ok ; but not after a hit .. i'm lost ..