Your money's no longer safe - Page 2

the_tyrant · 03-26-13, 08:46 PM

My dad is a professional investor. In his opinion, money that you own that you do not plan on spending or investing is money that you are throwing away.

Remember, inflation will eat your money away. spend it or invest it.

Asian people often have this "save all your money" mentality. And that mentality screwed a lot of them over so to speak.

In high-growth markets like China, inflation is rampant. Thus, you really need to invest it into something. The good thing is, these markets often have a very solid stock market or government bonds.

In slower growth markets, inflation isn't as bad, but there are still many very solid investments that you can invest in. You still shouldn't just throw your money into a bank. Look into bonds, stable stocks that pay dividends, or something like that.

The only time when you should throw your money in a bank is when your currency is deflating. Other than that, invest it in something, or spend it!

Oberon · 03-26-13, 10:39 PM

When I read some of Skybirds posts I can't help but be reminded of a young Vladimir Ilyich Ulanov, calling on the people to take control of their wealth, to reject and burn down their oppressors.

And we all know how well that turned out....

August · 03-26-13, 10:43 PM

I bought forest with my money. Hopefully it will bring in a fair amount of money from logging for retirement.

Oberon · 03-26-13, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I bought forest with my money. Hopefully it will bring in a fair amount of money from logging for retirement.

A good investment. No matter how cheap electricity may get in the future, there will always be a demand for open fires and wood to go on them. Not to mention wood for environmentally friendly buildings and so forth.
That's the beauty of wood, unlike coal and oil, if done right it's sustainable over a shorter period.

03-27-13, 02:49 AM

Quote:

I can't help but be reminded of a young Vladimir Ilyich Ulanov

All extremists end up sounding the same.

Skybird · 03-27-13, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

My dad is a professional investor. In his opinion, money that you own that you do not plan on spending or investing is money that you are throwing away.

Remember, inflation will eat your money away. spend it or invest it.

Asian people often have this "save all your money" mentality. And that mentality screwed a lot of them over so to speak.

In high-growth markets like China, inflation is rampant. Thus, you really need to invest it into something. The good thing is, these markets often have a very solid stock market or government bonds.

In slower growth markets, inflation isn't as bad, but there are still many very solid investments that you can invest in. You still shouldn't just throw your money into a bank. Look into bonds, stable stocks that pay dividends, or something like that.

The only time when you should throw your money in a bank is when your currency is deflating. Other than that, invest it in something, or spend it!

The problem is we cannot all be economy experts and cannot all know which stocks to buy and which better to avoid. In the end, the stockmarket also is just a casino and as vulnerable as anything else. The only difference is that stock papers are put into a safe and cannot be stolen by the state .

And if the state makes a law expropriating industries, then you are the same kind of victim like owners of paper money.

What needs to be understood is that the politicians in power WILL DO EVERYTHING to delay the collapse of their playground for as long as possible. As long as there are states, people will get lied to, will get betrayed and will get robbed by the state.

The mere existence of states is at the heart of problems. How those running the state came to power, whether by crime and coup d'etat or by elections or by feudal heritage, is unimportant.

Not to mention that it is rarely the ordinary people but states declaring new wars.

If you think it consequently through, you realize that the often praised market economy and the idealised image of capitalism, and the existence of states, are mutually exclusive. The ideal of the first needs the absence of the latter. The state limits and steals private property. But the guarantee of private property is the very basis of any free society.

Skybird · 03-27-13, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

A good investment. No matter how cheap electricity may get in the future, there will always be a demand for open fires and wood to go on them. Not to mention wood for environmentally friendly buildings and so forth.
That's the beauty of wood, unlike coal and oil, if done right it's sustainable over a shorter period.

Do you knbow how high special payments and taxes were for German landlords and house owners in the terrible years of the 20s of the past century? Many shot a bullet through their head.

If the system collapses, nothing saves you. Not gold. Not property. Not stocks. Nothing. The state always has the longer lever to steal from you.

August · 03-27-13, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

If the system collapses, nothing saves you. Not gold. Not property. Not stocks. Nothing. The state always has the longer lever to steal from you.

What state?

If the system collapses so does the state. The worst you're going to have to fear is a local potentate filling the power vacuum.

Skybird · 03-27-13, 10:02 AM

The state that not only collects taxes from you, but that also has the power to rule by itself how much it is about to steal from you. The state that has the power to put its hands even deeper into your pockets when it decides that this is desirable to please the crowd or to delay the unmasking of its own failure, financially. The state that makes the laws you have to comply with else they go after you. The state that lives at your cost but does not produce anything, just takes from you and takes more and more: more of your money. More of your freedom. More of your property. More of your rights.

It is not in the interest of the democratic state to foster and to hold together the common and poublic wealthg, since the actors acting on behalf of the state know they rule for limited time only and do not own the capitalstock. They only can use and profit of the interest they are granted with by temporarily using the capitalstock. So their interest is not directed at the long-termed future, but at maximising income in the shortest ammount of time possible. Raising debts and collecting more taxes are the tools of choice.

Ask yourself why today there is a total tax burden (all txes togather) of around 50%, while a hundred and two hundred years ago in many countries it was just 5-8%. Ask yourself why in the US the number of laws and regulations for all and everything have grown by a factor of beyond 200 in the past 25 years alone. The act of ever growing law canons indicates that there is anything but stability and trustworthiness of laws. The law is made by lobbyists and elitists and that you have ever changing regulations juts illustrates how fluid and unstable the law indeed is. Public law goes before private law now, and public law means the claim of the common public for everything anybody owns, and has even gone beyond that in parts of the Western world, now also regulating what people according to public "consensus" should think and voice in opinion in order to not getting criminalized, defamed or discriminated.

Yes, all that is Hoppe again. And yes, if you think it has the smell of pure socialism and collectivism around it, than you are right.

I HATE collectivism.

Betonov · 03-27-13, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I bought forest with my money. Hopefully it will bring in a fair amount of money from logging for retirement.

Ha ha ha ha, you had to buy

Just kidding. I inherited my 5 hectares of forrest. And no-one had to die. My grandmother just didn't wanted it anymore and was all transfered to me

Lousy logging oportunity, it's steep and in the middle of nowhere. But it has a registered hut on it which just needs some renovation.

August · 03-27-13, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

Ha ha ha ha, you had to buy

Just kidding. I inherited my 5 hectares of forrest. And no-one had to die. My grandmother just didn't wanted it anymore and was all transfered to me

Lousy logging oportunity, it's steep and in the middle of nowhere. But it has a registered hut on it which just needs some renovation.

Good for you! It's good for a man to own land.

Steepness shouldn't be that much of a detraction though. Don't you folks do skyline logging? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline_logging

Betonov · 03-27-13, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Good for you! It's good for a man to own land.

Steepness shouldn't be that much of a detraction though. Don't you folks do skyline logging? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline_logging

A lot. But it's also expensive.

There's 2 problems. The 5 hectares are in 3 pieces of diferent sizes so one parcel isn't enough to produce enough quality wood to at least cover the operation. Second, to get to the road I need concensus from 3 other landowners that I had to drag the logs ower their land.

Wait and buy off land. A lot of owners are old and their kids just don't want a piece of forrested land. Listen to the obituary, the land is cheap after someone dies.

August · 03-27-13, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

A lot. But it's also expensive.

There's 2 problems. The 5 hectares are in 3 pieces of diferent sizes so one parcel isn't enough to produce enough quality wood to at least cover the operation. Second, to get to the road I need concensus from 3 other landowners that I had to drag the logs ower their land.

Wait and buy off land. A lot of owners are old and their kids just don't want a piece of forrested land. Listen to the obituary, the land is cheap after someone dies.

I see the difficulty you have. I'm luckier in that Maine gives a huge property tax discount to lands being used to grow trees. My 100 acres only costs me about $360 per year.

Sung · 03-27-13, 11:32 AM

Buy stocks, gold, silver and take your money from the bank. Thats the best way to defense.

This fiat money system will come to end.

03-27-13, 11:41 AM

Skybird, property relations, in the sense of individual ownership, can only exist as long as the state does. In all stateless societies, 'property ownership', such as it exists at all, is collective. It has to be. No individual can enforce ownership alone. You have a simple choice: state + property, or no state + no property. Which would you prefer?

And don't bother quoting your favourite academic anarcho-capitalist rabble-rouser on this - the facts, as stated above, are self-evident from anthropological studies (as well as being common sense), and all the wishful thinking in the world cannot alter the fact that collective action invariably beats individualism in the long run, when it comes to who 'owns' what. You can sit on your pile of gold waving your AK-47 around all you like. You have to sleep sometime...

03-26-13, 08:46 PM	#16
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	My dad is a professional investor. In his opinion, money that you own that you do not plan on spending or investing is money that you are throwing away. Remember, inflation will eat your money away. spend it or invest it. Asian people often have this "save all your money" mentality. And that mentality screwed a lot of them over so to speak. In high-growth markets like China, inflation is rampant. Thus, you really need to invest it into something. The good thing is, these markets often have a very solid stock market or government bonds. In slower growth markets, inflation isn't as bad, but there are still many very solid investments that you can invest in. You still shouldn't just throw your money into a bank. Look into bonds, stable stocks that pay dividends, or something like that. The only time when you should throw your money in a bank is when your currency is deflating. Other than that, invest it in something, or spend it! __________________ My own open source project on Sourceforge OTP.net KGB grade encryption for the rest of us

03-26-13, 10:43 PM	#18
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,206 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I bought forest with my money. Hopefully it will bring in a fair amount of money from logging for retirement. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

03-27-13, 10:02 AM	#24
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,645 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The state that not only collects taxes from you, but that also has the power to rule by itself how much it is about to steal from you. The state that has the power to put its hands even deeper into your pockets when it decides that this is desirable to please the crowd or to delay the unmasking of its own failure, financially. The state that makes the laws you have to comply with else they go after you. The state that lives at your cost but does not produce anything, just takes from you and takes more and more: more of your money. More of your freedom. More of your property. More of your rights. It is not in the interest of the democratic state to foster and to hold together the common and poublic wealthg, since the actors acting on behalf of the state know they rule for limited time only and do not own the capitalstock. They only can use and profit of the interest they are granted with by temporarily using the capitalstock. So their interest is not directed at the long-termed future, but at maximising income in the shortest ammount of time possible. Raising debts and collecting more taxes are the tools of choice. Ask yourself why today there is a total tax burden (all txes togather) of around 50%, while a hundred and two hundred years ago in many countries it was just 5-8%. Ask yourself why in the US the number of laws and regulations for all and everything have grown by a factor of beyond 200 in the past 25 years alone. The act of ever growing law canons indicates that there is anything but stability and trustworthiness of laws. The law is made by lobbyists and elitists and that you have ever changing regulations juts illustrates how fluid and unstable the law indeed is. Public law goes before private law now, and public law means the claim of the common public for everything anybody owns, and has even gone beyond that in parts of the Western world, now also regulating what people according to public "consensus" should think and voice in opinion in order to not getting criminalized, defamed or discriminated. Yes, all that is Hoppe again. And yes, if you think it has the smell of pure socialism and collectivism around it, than you are right. I HATE collectivism. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-27-13, 11:32 AM	#29
Sung Developer Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 335 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Buy stocks, gold, silver and take your money from the bank. Thats the best way to defense. This fiat money system will come to end. __________________ SILENT DEPTH the submarine simulation for your mobile device www.silentdepth.com https://www.facebook.com/silentdepth/ Silent Depth Manual

03-26-13, 10:39 PM	#17
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	When I read some of Skybirds posts I can't help but be reminded of a young Vladimir Ilyich Ulanov, calling on the people to take control of their wealth, to reject and burn down their oppressors. And we all know how well that turned out....

03-27-13, 11:41 AM	#30
AndyJWest Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Skybird, property relations, in the sense of individual ownership, can only exist as long as the state does. In all stateless societies, 'property ownership', such as it exists at all, is collective. It has to be. No individual can enforce ownership alone. You have a simple choice: state + property, or no state + no property. Which would you prefer? And don't bother quoting your favourite academic anarcho-capitalist rabble-rouser on this - the facts, as stated above, are self-evident from anthropological studies (as well as being common sense), and all the wishful thinking in the world cannot alter the fact that collective action invariably beats individualism in the long run, when it comes to who 'owns' what. You can sit on your pile of gold waving your AK-47 around all you like. You have to sleep sometime...