Falklands Referendum Result - Page 2

Jimbuna · 03-12-13, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

When I first heard a referendum was considered (early last year) I think, wow, a clever move: they (islanders) would ask for independence and they will have world opinion backing them (everybody loves tiny nations, specially the new "free" ones)

But the referendum is about to remain British. So, no news in here. In fact, I could say that this improves Argentine position about the islands (no three parties involved: mainlanders and islanders are the same...).

Besides that, this is a problem about land, not about people who live on it. I don´t think Argentina even think on evicting the islanders or sell their land or something in that line.

Well, my point. If anyone wants to attack Ms. Kirchner, be my guest. I hardly swallow her.

Regards!

Isn't it great when the politicians get involved

Hopefully things will quieten down for a bit.

STEED · 03-12-13, 02:08 PM

I was one of the 0.1%

I voted we go Irish and free Guinness served every day at noon.

Out voted by flat warm beer drinkers.

Jimbuna · 03-12-13, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

I was one of the 0.1%

I voted we go Irish and free Guinness served every day at noon.

Out voted by flat warm beer drinkers.

LOL ya crazy bugga

August · 03-12-13, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

Besides that, this is a problem about land, not about people who live on it. I don´t think Argentina even think on evicting the islanders or sell their land or something in that line.

Doesn't matter. These people have a right to self determination. The islanders have decided they wish to remain British by overwhelming margins. There is really nothing else to be said.

Marcantilan · 03-12-13, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Doesn't matter. These people have a right to self determination. The islanders have decided they wish to remain British by overwhelming margins. There is really nothing else to be said.

And British will remain!

However, UN pushed (since 1965) negotiations based on the interests and not the wishes of the islanders. And that´s not the same.

Oberon · 03-12-13, 08:49 PM

I think what Marcantilan is trying to get across is that in Argentinas eyes, the islanders are squatting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting) on Argentinian land, whereas Britain claims it to be British land. The arguement is not about the islanders or their allegience but who owns the land that they're on.

The trouble is when you start backdating claims to territory then the modern US is squatting on various American tribes lands, Britain is squatting on god-alone-knows whose land, and let's not even get started on Belgium.

At the end of the day though, something that both Brits and Argentines will agree on is that this whole issue is being blown out of proportion by politicians seeking to distract the general public from economic troubles. For the most part, the British and Argentinian public have 'agreed to disagree' on the Falkland/Malvinas issue after the war and just want to get on with getting through this global recession.

August · 03-12-13, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think what Marcantilan is trying to get across is that in Argentinas eyes, the islanders are squatting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting) on Argentinian land, whereas Britain claims it to be British land. The arguement is not about the islanders or their allegience but who owns the land that they're on.

The trouble is when you start backdating claims to territory then the modern US is squatting on various American tribes lands, Britain is squatting on god-alone-knows whose land, and let's not even get started on Belgium.

At the end of the day though, something that both Brits and Argentines will agree on is that this whole issue is being blown out of proportion by politicians seeking to distract the general public from economic troubles. For the most part, the British and Argentinian public have 'agreed to disagree' on the Falkland/Malvinas issue after the war and just want to get on with getting through this global recession.

I see what you're saying and agree though I think that to the Islanders themselves it must be somewhat disconcerting.

Synthfg · 03-13-13, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think what Marcantilan is trying to get across is that in Argentinas eyes, the islanders are squatting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting) on Argentinian land, whereas Britain claims it to be British land. The arguement is not about the islanders or their allegience but who owns the land that they're on.

The trouble is when you start backdating claims to territory then the modern US is squatting on various American tribes lands, Britain is squatting on god-alone-knows whose land, and let's not even get started on Belgium.

At the end of the day though, something that both Brits and Argentines will agree on is that this whole issue is being blown out of proportion by politicians seeking to distract the general public from economic troubles. For the most part, the British and Argentinian public have 'agreed to disagree' on the Falkland/Malvinas issue after the war and just want to get on with getting through this global recession.

Britain doesn't claim the islands as British tho
The islands are self governing but have chosen to remain affiliated to Great Britain
The Islanders many of them 8th or 9th Generation can hardly be described as recent immigrants or colonists,
They are in effect an independent small nation who rely on the UK gov for support especially in foreign policy and defense matters

Jimbuna · 03-13-13, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthfg

Britain doesn't claim the islands as British tho
The islands are self governing but have chosen to remain affiliated to Great Britain
The Islanders many of them 8th or 9th Generation can hardly be described as recent immigrants or colonists,
They are in effect an independent small nation who rely on the UK gov for support especially in foreign policy and defense matters

Sadly those facts can be forgotten when there is the chance there are huge mineral and oil reserves in the area...and that goes for both sides.

Marcantilan · 03-13-13, 04:18 PM

Suspend all referendums...

We are going to ask the Pope about it!

03-13-13, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Doesn't matter. These people have a right to self determination. The islanders have decided they wish to remain British by overwhelming margins. There is really nothing else to be said.

British history says that is not the case.

Jimbuna · 03-13-13, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

Suspend all referendums...

We are going to ask the Pope about it!

Quite a suprise to many but I imagine quite an honour for your country

Skybird · 03-13-13, 05:38 PM

Wikipedia says that it has been a constant going and leaving there, but when I oversee it all it seems to me that the French were first to land, almost simultaneously with the British. The French folded voluntarily and left their claims to Spain. However, it seems the British were the first to officially formulate a claim for the islands, and although they left for some time when they had this little argument with their impertinent Northern colonies, they also left behind a badge that reiterated that claim, making it clear they did not mean to give it up.

On the issue of Palestinian Arabs I have argued that even illegal shiftings of borders after some time, after some decades and generation, creat new facts on the ground that one cannot correct anymore wihtout needing to create new injustice. Therefore I side with the Israelis after these 70+ years. I would not but sit on the fence, if the founding of Israel would have been only some few years ago.

I also said in past discussions that I oppose the way NATO intervened in Kosovo and pushed the Serbs out, allowing that Albanians moved from Albania into Kosovo in great numbers and afterwards arguing that Kosovo always had been theirs. I never accepted that "logic" and still do not accept it, but maybe will in half a century, if I would still be around then, which is impossible. Around 90& of the Albanians in Kosovo are there since just a few years.

These two cases I just explain to illustrate that when it comes to people's referendum whether they want to be Argentinian or british, this referendum alone doe snot count that much indeed. What gives it validity is not the outcome itself, but the long time that the people giving that referendum already are on th island. The time factor. The Argentinians, on their behalf, have no such time argument to defend their claim for the islands. They also were not the first to raise any claims in the past. The first were the French and the British. The British have not taken away anything from argentinia.

Well, that'S how I see it.

03-12-13, 02:08 PM	#17
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I was one of the 0.1% I voted we go Irish and free Guinness served every day at noon. Out voted by flat warm beer drinkers. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

03-13-13, 04:18 PM	#25
Marcantilan Weps Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Posts: 374 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Suspend all referendums... We are going to ask the Pope about it! __________________ Ultima Ratio Regis

03-13-13, 05:38 PM	#28
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,660 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Wikipedia says that it has been a constant going and leaving there, but when I oversee it all it seems to me that the French were first to land, almost simultaneously with the British. The French folded voluntarily and left their claims to Spain. However, it seems the British were the first to officially formulate a claim for the islands, and although they left for some time when they had this little argument with their impertinent Northern colonies, they also left behind a badge that reiterated that claim, making it clear they did not mean to give it up. On the issue of Palestinian Arabs I have argued that even illegal shiftings of borders after some time, after some decades and generation, creat new facts on the ground that one cannot correct anymore wihtout needing to create new injustice. Therefore I side with the Israelis after these 70+ years. I would not but sit on the fence, if the founding of Israel would have been only some few years ago. I also said in past discussions that I oppose the way NATO intervened in Kosovo and pushed the Serbs out, allowing that Albanians moved from Albania into Kosovo in great numbers and afterwards arguing that Kosovo always had been theirs. I never accepted that "logic" and still do not accept it, but maybe will in half a century, if I would still be around then, which is impossible. Around 90& of the Albanians in Kosovo are there since just a few years. These two cases I just explain to illustrate that when it comes to people's referendum whether they want to be Argentinian or british, this referendum alone doe snot count that much indeed. What gives it validity is not the outcome itself, but the long time that the people giving that referendum already are on th island. The time factor. The Argentinians, on their behalf, have no such time argument to defend their claim for the islands. They also were not the first to raise any claims in the past. The first were the French and the British. The British have not taken away anything from argentinia. Well, that'S how I see it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-12-13, 08:49 PM	#21
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I think what Marcantilan is trying to get across is that in Argentinas eyes, the islanders are squatting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting) on Argentinian land, whereas Britain claims it to be British land. The arguement is not about the islanders or their allegience but who owns the land that they're on. The trouble is when you start backdating claims to territory then the modern US is squatting on various American tribes lands, Britain is squatting on god-alone-knows whose land, and let's not even get started on Belgium. At the end of the day though, something that both Brits and Argentines will agree on is that this whole issue is being blown out of proportion by politicians seeking to distract the general public from economic troubles. For the most part, the British and Argentinian public have 'agreed to disagree' on the Falkland/Malvinas issue after the war and just want to get on with getting through this global recession.