Russia to mark 70 years since Battle of Stalingrad

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Troublous_Haze

The channel that I believe was breached by Gneisenau and Shnarchorst in 1942 from Brest to Wilhelsmhaven, was crossed with minority of british resistance proves that nothing could stop Germans from passing the straight of Dover at the time they did it. Somewhat a disapointment to royal navy wasn't it ?

Braking through the Channel

One breakout in six years does not constitute naval control. Admittedly though, kudos to the Kriegsmarine, it was a ballsy move, we were expecting them to make a break at night, not in the middle of the day. Caught completely off guard.
Several dozen uboats, and eboats were not so lucky in the channel though.

Furthermore, honestly, it was better for the Royal Navy and Britain as a whole for those two ships NOT to be in France, where they could threaten Atlantic convoys, but to be cooped up safely protecting against an imaginary invasion of Norway.

Originally Posted by Oberon

One breakout in six years does not constitute naval control. Admittedly though, kudos to the Kriegsmarine, it was a ballsy move, we were expecting them to make a break at night, not in the middle of the day. Caught completely off guard.
Several dozen uboats, and eboats were not so lucky in the channel though.

Furthermore, honestly, it was better for the Royal Navy and Britain as a whole for those two ships NOT to be in France, where they could threaten Atlantic convoys, but to be cooped up safely protecting against an imaginary invasion of Norway.

Speaking about naval control you used to forget about influence of U-boats thread here mate Surface ships played just a secondary role in that battle

[HundertzehnGustav]

The subs were a threat.
That threat was kicked in the balls by whom? surface and air.
so who is the major player in the atrantic? the DD, the PBY or the VII?

The subs were dangerous, and scary as hell.
but too few were active, and the intel was soon known.
control, in the sense of controlling who is using that space (2D or 3D) over a given timeframe.........
the subs never managed to do that.

so the subs never controlled anything. not the large areas, not the channel. Not the rivers and harbors, not the convoy routes.
because the enemy poured more and more ships on that battlefield.
The subs didnt even control their own front garden, the bay of biskay after 1942.

subs never controlled anything.

[Cybermat47]

^^^^^

They were the gods of the Eastern American seaboard in 1942.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Troublous_Haze

Speaking about naval control you used to forget about influence of U-boats thread here mate Surface ships played just a secondary role in that battle

In what battle?

Originally Posted by Oberon

In what battle?

in the whole battle for Atlantic

So you say that the successfull channel dash wasn't somewhat a miserable event to Royal Navy ?

Jimbuna, what was that about #46 ?

Failed to understand the question, sorry

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Troublous_Haze

Jimbuna, what was that about #46 ?

Failed to understand the question, sorry

No problem....Churchill lost power to a Labour government straight after the war and because of the politics that evolved at the time the VE parade in 1946 was missing one important ally from the war....Free Poland.

Russia and Yugoslavia weren't their either but that was to be expected.

Many believe had Churchill still been in power at the time, he would have ignored the stance taken by Stalin and the Poles would have been in attendance.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Troublous_Haze

in the whole battle for Atlantic

Well, without the Uboats there wouldn't have been a Battle for the Atlantic! However, one has to remember that aside from two or three peaks, once the convoy system had gotten its act together, and technology advanced enough to allow long range aircraft escort, the uboats became less and less effective. They missed their opportunities due to a lack in numbers at critical times. If Doenitz had had his three hundred uboats at the outbreak of war, then perhaps things could have been a bit different, but instead resources were pumped into making battlecruisers that had minimal impact on the war.

Originally Posted by Troublous_Haze

So you say that the successfull channel dash wasn't somewhat a miserable event to Royal Navy ?

Not particularly, it was war, sometimes the enemy does things you don't expect them to. In the short term it was a bit embarrassing, but in the long term it was actually good fortune, because it took them out of the Battle for the Atlantic and put them in a completely useless theatre of operations.
Even the German Naval staff called the Channel Dash a 'tactical victory but a strategic defeat'.

Out of curiosity, where are you from?

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Not particularly, it was war, sometimes the enemy does things you don't expect them to.

Very true. The battle of the Bulge was a great example of that. The Germans achieved surprise in that battle precisely because attacking in that place at that time was such an obviously bad idea that nobody expected them to do it.