The next HBO/Spielberg/Hanks WW2 miniseries is a go...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Who is that?

Google was my friend. I forgot the name, but of course know the Laconia incident. Well. Hartenstein thought he alone would change the rules of the game if only he made his intention known. Result of that was that he almost got all his men killed and the boat almost lost. If I would have been on his boat, I would have requested a transfer to another boat, I do not share the popular sentiments about him. In my eyes, he was a fool with good manners, and a risk for his own men, and a commander who made a terrible misjudgement and then tried to ease the pain on his conscience, an effort for which his men almost payed with their lives.

Your men go first.

I am with the American commander here who gave order to sink the sub, red cross and survivors yes or no. The boat was a weapon that shoot again. For the survivors he now saved, future ships with even more lives lost could have been the price. So: sink that sub. Not kind. But the logic of war.

I counter your example with two names that maybe fit better what you wanted to express: John Rabe, and Oskar Schindler. And hundreds and thousands of citizens showing civil courage but whose names history never has recorded. And different to Hartenstein, neither Schindler nor Rabe killed civilians due to misjudgement.

But these were no soldiers.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Your men go first.

Your first priority is to win the war. Hartenstein had sunken an enemy vessel. Check.

Your second priority is your men's safety. Hartenstein radioed the Allies, informing them of the situation. Check.

Your third priority is the safety of Civilians and captured enemy personnel. Hartenstein gave them food and water. Check.

If the Allies had informed the Ascencion Island base that a U-boat was rescuing survivors, it would have all worked out.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Your first priority is to win the war.

Strange, when I say that in such totality, I take flak.

Hartenstein had sunken an enemy vessel. Check.

Unaware of its loading: 300+ passengers, and over one thousand Axis prisoners.

Your second priority is your men's safety.

Strange, when i say that it is second priority only, I take flak.

Hartenstein radioed the Allies, informing them of the situation. Check.

He did. idiot. He seriously beliueved the enemy would cooperate and cease the war because Hartenstein did a radio transmission: "Don't shoot, I mean no harm, I will start to fire at your ships again not before I unloaded my passengers." He wanted to ease his conscience which probably was disturbed. Still, what he did was naive.

Your third priority is the safety of Civilians and captured enemy personnel. Hartenstein gave them food and water. Check.

No, along with the second priority it is the maintaining of your combat efficiency and the maximising of your available combat power in times of combat powers. Foreign civilians and prisoners shall not make you compromise your logistic situation and your tactical and strategic situation if you allow that, you would violate your priorities one and two. And that is what Hartenstein did.

Civilians and prisoners are a burden you only shall take into your fomrula when you have the luxury of being in oversupply of goods and items, and your military situation is such that you can afford that generosity. While civilians that do not participate in supporting the enemy for sure must not be seen as a military target and thus can be saved from being targetted, presence of civilians shall not stop you to fire at the enemy if he is there. While prisoners you took must not be targetted, this is onmly as lonmg as there is no risk that they become a threat to your own effort and forces and logistics - by overwhelming the guards and breaking out, forming suddenly a potent threat in your middle or your rear.

If the Allies had informed the Ascencion Island base that a U-boat was rescuing survivors, it would have all worked out.

That's what you want to believe. A German sub is a German sub. It kills ships, and this shipkiller's position now was known. So...

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I take flak.

He would have too, but we were too busy giving it to him over something else. Also, we recognize that he's repeating what he's read, however true it may be, and is still learning. You, on the other hand, spend so much time preaching and beating people over the head with it that everyone has grown tired of hearing it, however true it may be.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

He would have too, but we were too busy giving it to him over something else. Also, we recognize that he's repeating what he's read, however true it may be, and is still learning. You, on the other hand, spend so much time preaching and beating people over the head with it that everyone has grown tired of hearing it, however true it may be.

However. Nice sig of yours again, the Grammar Nazi. I already loved the cat.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

He would have too, but we were too busy giving it to him over something else. Also, we recognize that he's repeating what he's read, however true it may be, and is still learning. You, on the other hand, spend so much time preaching and beating people over the head with it that everyone has grown tired of hearing it, however true it may be.

Steve, you just made my day. I've had a horrible day...and that made me laugh.

Sorry about your eyesight too...

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

Sorry about your eyesight too...

I've lived with glasse for almost fifty-three years now. It is what it is.

[Andrewsdad]

Ok, Spielberg here are two ideas for you.

Remake "The Enemy Below" Although it would be tough to beat the original film. Really Tough !!!

"Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" Now there is a great story with tragedy, glory, and lots of big guns to bring in the crowds. Might teach them some history too !!!

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