Catholic Transparency... - Page 3

Cybermat47 · 01-10-13, 04:09 PM

I don't reject it entirely. But can you really entirely trust a book that in some places says "The all-merciful Lord said 'I don't like gays, I think I'll subject them to eternal torture'"?

Takeda Shingen · 01-10-13, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I don't reject it entirely. But can you really entirely trust a book that in some places says "The all-merciful Lord said 'I don't like gays, I think I'll subject them to eternal torture'"?

So, which parts to you consider true, and which do you consider false? Do you reject the 10 Commandments? The Immaculate Conception? The Sermon on the Mount?

Cybermat47 · 01-10-13, 04:12 PM

Well, I reject the parts that are in conflict with other parts, like God loving everyone and hating gays.

Takeda Shingen · 01-10-13, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Well, I reject the parts that are in conflict with other parts, like God loving everyone and hating gays.

You didn't answer my question. We'll just start with one of them. Do you reject the 10 Commandments?

Cybermat47 · 01-10-13, 04:19 PM

No, I don't reject the Ten Commandments. They're a good set of laws.

Also, one part I consider false is the Garden of Eden. Modern discoveries such as the Theory of Evoloution make more sense. But, I have nothing against the story. It was made in a time when there was no concept of evoloution.

Takeda Shingen · 01-10-13, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Well, one part I consider false is the Garden of Eden. Modern discoveries such as the Theory of Evoloution make more sense. But, I have nothing against the story. It was made in a time when there was no concept of evoloution.

Do. You. Believe. In. The. Ten. Commandments.

Cybermat47 · 01-10-13, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Do. You. Believe. In. The. Ten. Commandments.

Refresh. Page. Look. Up.

Takeda Shingen · 01-10-13, 04:23 PM

Don't get snippy because you decided to edit in your comment after I posted.

What is the Second Commandment?

Cybermat47 · 01-10-13, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

What is the Second Commandment?

"Do not have any other gods before me"

OR

"Do not make a carving-a graven image of anything that is in heaven"

Takeda Shingen · 01-10-13, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

"Do not have any other gods before me"

OR

"Do not make a carving-a graven image of anything that is in heaven"

Exactly. In other words, don't make your own god of your choosing. And by cherry picking what tenets of Christianity you follow, you are doing just that; making a god in you own image. What you have then is your own brand of spirituality, which is just fine. However, you can't call it Christianity no more than you could call it Shintoism because you reject it's teachings.

August · 01-10-13, 04:38 PM

One can doubt the bibles accuracy but still be a Christian. All one has to do is look for the meaning behind the words rather than take the words as unadorned historical fact which is what I believe was the intention of the writers.

Sailor Steve · 01-10-13, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

IAnd what do you mean only one source for his very existence? Jesus was a genuine historical figure who was born in Bethlehem, spread his message of love and forgiveness, and was crucified by the Romans. Even Richard Dawkins thinks so! Wether or not he was a divine being, a prophet or a rambling lunatic is open to debate.

There are actually three. Josephus and Tacitus both interviewed Christians to find out what the fuss was about, and recorded what they were told. That's it. Two second-hand sources and the Bible, which doesn't give a single account claiming to be eye-witness, except for Paul's account of his conversion.

So your statement of "a genuive historical figure who was born in Bethlehem, spread his message of love and forgiveness, and was crucified by the Romans" has not one single actual historical record. No Hebrew or Roman records of his birth, no external records of "spreading his message", no Roman records of the crucifixion. Nothing.

I'm not saying it isn't true. I don't claim to know. But historical records? Not a single one.

Cybermat47 · 01-10-13, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Exactly. In other words, don't make your own god of your choosing. And by cherry picking what tenets of Christianity you follow, you are doing just that; making a god in you own image. What you have then is your own brand of spirituality, which is just fine. However, you can't call it Christianity no more than you could call it Shintoism because you reject it's teachings.

But isn't that also what the Catholic Church is doing? They've constructed the image of a God who critically punishes Homosexuality, and wants to stop abortions and voluntary euthanasia. The last 2 are terrible, terrible things, but in some cases are the best thing to do.

Also, the Catholic church was the only church that existed in Europe until Luther, so all Christian denominations stem from that.

And I don't see how I'm straying from either of those 2nd commandments. I'm only worshipping the God that is referred to in Christian texts, and I'm not carving images of him.

Cybermat47 · 01-10-13, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm not saying it isn't true. I don't claim to know. But historical records? Not a single one.

Steve, you have a unique talent. You can be absolutely polite to someone while destroying their argument. No wonder you were made a moderator!

Takeda Shingen · 01-10-13, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

But isn't that also what the Catholic Church is doing? They've constructed the image of a God who critically punishes Homosexuality, and wants to stop abortions and voluntary euthanasia. The last 2 are terrible, terrible things, but in some cases are the best thing to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviticus 20:13 (KJV)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans 1:26-27 (KJV)

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV)

Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God

Quote:

Also, the Catholic church was the only church that existed in Europe until Luther, so all Christian denominations stem from that.

Because they all follow the same basic tenets, which you reject.

Quote:

And I don't see how I'm straying from either of those 2nd commandments. I'm only worshipping the God that is referred to in Christian texts, and I'm not carving images of him.

You are worshiping a god that does not hold to the tenets of Christianity. As such, you are worshiping what may be a beautiful deity, but it isn't a Christian one. That violates the Second Commandment. Idols are not always physical.

01-10-13, 04:09 PM	#31
Cybermat47 Willing Webfooted Beast Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 5,408 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 23	I don't reject it entirely. But can you really entirely trust a book that in some places says "The all-merciful Lord said 'I don't like gays, I think I'll subject them to eternal torture'"? __________________ Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620 Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

01-10-13, 04:12 PM	#33
Cybermat47 Willing Webfooted Beast Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 5,408 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 23	Well, I reject the parts that are in conflict with other parts, like God loving everyone and hating gays. __________________ Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620 Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

01-10-13, 04:19 PM	#35
Cybermat47 Willing Webfooted Beast Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 5,408 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 23	No, I don't reject the Ten Commandments. They're a good set of laws. Also, one part I consider false is the Garden of Eden. Modern discoveries such as the Theory of Evoloution make more sense. But, I have nothing against the story. It was made in a time when there was no concept of evoloution. __________________ Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620 Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

01-10-13, 04:38 PM	#41
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,213 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	One can doubt the bibles accuracy but still be a Christian. All one has to do is look for the meaning behind the words rather than take the words as unadorned historical fact which is what I believe was the intention of the writers. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

01-10-13, 04:23 PM	#38
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Don't get snippy because you decided to edit in your comment after I posted. What is the Second Commandment?