Should assault rifles be banned in the US?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Yeah I suppose so, especially since I have more relatives that are German citizens than Americans and none of them are anything like some of the Germans I meet here.

Of course their constant attacks on my country do tend to tempt me to respond in kind but I guess I should keep in mind that for every nipplespanner or Skybird there is a Penguin or a Lurchi and a few others to counteract them.

Sadly that's the price you pay for being top dog, I imagine if the internet had been around in the 1800s I'd be undergoing a similar trial by nationality.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

As a toddler, I wanted, for some reason, Britain to annex Australia

We did our best, but we were forced back by the legions of Dropbears and Bunyips. 'Tis a strange and hostile land Australia.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

The .223 is roughly the same to a 5.56x45 NATO, which is used in M4 carbines and M16s. I have a .223 cartridge right in front of me, the bullet would be about as long as an average pinkie. The cartridge i have in front of me was fired from a .223 M14, known as a mini-m14 because of the fact that a military issue m14 fires 7.62x51 NATO.

The .223 may be almost identical (some say it's different, but by all that much) to a 5.56 but the .223 was originally designed to take down really big game animals. The .223 offered hunters the ability to take down an animal with less bullets and more force. Hunters are actually vital to ecosystems in some places, where population control over problem species needs to be maintained. Not to mention it's potential uses in extreme law enforcement and security for high risk events such as the olympics. It is in some cases interchangeable with the 5.56mm so it could be used with some 5.56 rifles. the .223 round is considered an assault rifle round, but banning it would cause semi automatic weapons to be affected too.

Your statement about the .223 being designed to hunt large game is completely incorrect.The opposite is in fact true the .223 was designed as a varmint round so small game coyotes,wolves things of this nature you can hunt deer with one but it is not the ideal round for that role and it not a very good round for large game.Against a human being either round is highly effective and likely to cause death or very serious injury.I don't know where you got your information but it is wrong. No .223 or 5.56mm round is a long a a pinke either unless you have tiny fingers my pinkie is about 3 inches long maybe you mean the casing and the bullet.A .233 or 5.56mm is about the length of an AA battery.


Now the 5.56x45mm and the .223 are almost exactly the same in most respect they have a differences the inner wall of a 5.56mm case in thinker allowing for higher pressures the cambering is slightly different the leade of a .223 chamber will be 0.085 on a 5.56mm round the leade is 0.162 both rounds will fit in either chamber but it would be un wsie to use military grade 5.56mm rounds in a .223 chamber.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I was unaware that the shooter used a fully automatic assault rifle.

I thought he used a bushmaster .223

Guess when you don't know what you're talking about even a muzzle loader is an assault rifle.

And no, I'd not use my assault rifles to shoot kindergarten students as you put it, my two fully automatic assault rifles have been out of the vault twice in as many years for routine cleaning. They have both been fired one full magazine once each in the last 5 years. I don't point my firearms at anything with a personality unless I want that personality to go away forever.

Personally I think this is a really inappropriate and disrespectful time to have this discussion and I don't think I'll participate beyond this post.

Good night

I agree ... good night to rigged polls

True to your word Golden Rivet, you have decided to stay out of polictal motivated threads lol

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

The .223 may be almost identical (some say it's different, but by all that much) to a 5.56 but the .223 was originally designed to take down really big game animals. The .223 offered hunters the ability to take down an animal with less bullets and more force.

Documentation, please.

The .223 was NEVER designed to hunt very big game.

As far as hunting calibers go, the .223 is right at the marginally useful category. In many states like here in Colorado it is illegal to use a .223 Remington or a 5.56 to hunt anything except varmints. They simply don't provide an ethical kill reliably enough. The states that do allow it for deer usually have much smaller deer than here. (deer grow bigger bodies in different parts of the country)

The only reason it is popularly owned is that the semi-auto rifles in .223 available are fun to shoot and the ammo is dirt cheap compared to other center fire calibers.

(Please, no comments about the proper shot placement gets the job done yadda yadda. I have heard all those arguments) For hunting North American big game, you really should be using something else.

@Stealhead you type faster than me.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

Documentation, please.

The .223 was NEVER designed to hunt very big game.

As far as hunting calibers go, the .223 is right at the marginally useful category. In many states like here in Colorado it is illegal to use a .223 Remington or a 5.56 to hunt anything except varmints. They simply don't provide an ethical kill reliably enough. The states that do allow it for deer usually have much smaller deer than here. (deer grow bigger bodies in different parts of the country)

The only reason it is popularly owned is that the semi-auto rifles in .223 available are fun to shoot and the ammo is dirt cheap compared to other center fire calibers.

(Please, no comments about the proper shot placement gets the job done yadda yadda. I have heard all those arguments) For hunting North American big game, you really should be using something else.

@Stealhead you type faster than me.

I have a PhD in hunt and peck

Matt sounds like he is looking at a 7.62x51mm round or he has very bad eye measurement.Hell a bullet as long as your pinkie your talking .50 BMG there.

You will find that most true bolt action varmint/small game rifles are .223 and most modern AR-15 and clones are 5.56mm because so much 5.56 is already used by the military and law enforcement they could really sell it for much less but you know the gun market I'm sure profit profit profit.

Oh and someone said where can you a 79 round AR-15 magazine? Answer almost anywhere Beta mags are sold in almost every gun store in up to 100 round models that is just ridiculousness.
The most I own for an AR-15 are 20 round and I dont use them often I mostly use the 10 round mags.Guys will try to sell them all the time.

Photo of a 100 round magazine:





Wanna buy one? http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+100+Round+Mag

If you need that to defend your self your either a drug cartel member or you really need to speak to a mental health professional because you are freaking paranoid.

[Neptunus Rex]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Militia

(Mi-li-tia)

Noun

Definition: A military force that is raised from the civilian population in an emergency to supplement a regular army



Would you say that the shooter was supplementing the regular army in an emergency?

You have to view it in the context of American history. Until the formation of the Continental Army, it was by colonial MI-LI-TIA. In colonial America, all able bodied males between the ages of 18-50 were part of that militia and all were required to maintain arms. And the militia grew in popularity when the British Crown was perceived as being oppressive.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Hell a bullet as long as your pinkie your talking .50 BMG there.

You will find that most true bolt action varmint/small game rifles are .223 and most modern AR-15 and clones are 5.56mm because so much 5.56 is already used by the military and law enforcement they could really sell it for much less but you know the gun market I'm sure profit profit profit.

I highly suspect he meant the pinkie from the last joint out to the tip. At least, I HOPE that was his intent. Even then.....?

[Stealhead]

With small fingers that is a about right on me that is still a big bullet like a .338 maybe I have long fingers though.In the old day when measures where the kings arm length and such maybe my great great great great grand father was the man the king sent to measure things on his behalf.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Wanna buy one? http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+100+Round+Mag

If you need that to defend your self your either a drug cartel member or you really need to speak to a mental health professional because you are freaking paranoid.

The Aurora theater shooter had a 100 round drum magazine. THOSE they could outlaw and I wouldn't mind it.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by geetrue

I agree ... good night to rigged polls

True to your word Golden Rivet, you have decided to stay out of polictal motivated threads lol

For the most part yes.

I think if you review my participation in political threads you'd see a sharp decline over the past 2 years. Additionally my participation in such threads has been considerably more... Reserved in commentary

[August]

I believe Matt is thinking of the bullet and it's shell casing together which is a little over two inches.

[Stealhead]

His jammed thankfully but he was still able to get a 30 round magazine that he had with him into the rifle I have seen photos of his AR on the ground with a 30 round magazine. I think he had a misfeed in the 100 rounder and then tired to swap out the 30 rounder but had failed to clear the weapon and tossed it.Of course he did unload much of the 100 mag before it failed on him.

@August yes most likely thinking about it that makes since.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Oh and someone said where can you a 79 round AR-15 magazine? Answer almost anywhere Beta mags are sold in almost every gun store in up to 100 round models that is just ridiculousness.
The most I own for an AR-15 are 20 round and I dont use them often I mostly use the 10 round mags.Guys will try to sell them all the time.

Photo of a 100 round magazine:


Wanna buy one? http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+100+Round+Mag

If you need that to defend your self your either a drug cartel member or you really need to speak to a mental health professional because you are freaking paranoid.

That would have been me, and funnily enough I was looking at the doubled up mags earlier when trying to formulate a response that involved the fact that an Assault RIFLE ban would skip machine pistols and pistols with double mags, so I had a quick google to check that these things did exist for pistols and machine pistols and sure enough they do.

However, the ban that Cyber is probably thinking of is the Assault WEAPON ban which encompasses weapons with certain characteristics, such as the Uzi, and more recently the AA-12. The effectiveness of such a ban is debatable, it didn't do much to stop the Columbine shootings or the other hundred and fifty people killed on school property in the period between 1994 and 2004.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Your statement about the .223 being designed to hunt large game is completely incorrect.The opposite is in fact true the .223 was designed as a varmint round so small game coyotes,wolves things of this nature you can hunt deer with one but it is not the ideal round for that role and it not a very good round for large game.Against a human being either round is highly effective and likely to cause death or very serious injury.I don't know where you got your information but it is wrong. No .223 or 5.56mm round is a long a a pinke either unless you have tiny fingers my pinkie is about 3 inches long maybe you mean the casing and the bullet.A .233 or 5.56mm is about the length of an AA battery.


Now the 5.56x45mm and the .223 are almost exactly the same in most respect they have a differences the inner wall of a 5.56mm case in thinker allowing for higher pressures the cambering is slightly different the leade of a .223 chamber will be 0.085 on a 5.56mm round the leade is 0.162 both rounds will fit in either chamber but it would be un wsie to use military grade 5.56mm rounds in a .223 chamber.

My uncle uses his mini-14 for hunting deer and says he has no problem. but yea sorry about the big game thing. in retrospect, the high velocity wouldn't make it the best caliber for bigger game.

And some additional misunderstanding. When i mentioned the bullet i was including the casing and the bullet together, and my pinkie is around 2.75 in Indeed, a bullet the size of even my pinkie is pretty damned big.

And there are rifles suited to both 5.56 NATO and .223 rounds, the mini-14 being one of them. But as a general rule the 5.56 will put alot of stress on the gun if it's chambered for .223.

A deadly round nonetheless.