Power of the machine gun?

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by gap

Good tip

I am wondering wether playing the game in windowed mode/full screen mode does matter when testing mods the way you are suggesting

Nah , just hit the windows key and adjust the peramater and then go back to the main screen and load the single mission .

[troopie]

Cheers for the heads up gap, excellent advice posted above. I'll make a start on this on the weekend.

Right now I gotta go watch THFRO as another thread has just sucked me into it!


Edit: Anyone know what my rank says now?

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by troopie

Edit: Anyone know what my rank says now?

Chinese sailor

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by GT182

Hear is another question that I've asked before on the sub's guns.

Is it possible to change settings to make the flak guns on the subs do damage to shipping too? It would be great to have the extra protection while you're trying to sink that ship that returns fire on you.

I used the flak guns on a ship (I had to man the gun personally) and I cut that ship to pieces. I think I already mentioned most of this. What I still have to try is whether or not I can use the flak gun against say, an enemy's gun to silence it.
I can blow the lifeboats off the enemy ship and pieces of metal flying everywhere. I don't know if the flak gun will actually help win the day.
Also, you are right in the fact that I don't know if I was cutting any damage points off the ship. I think I'll man that gun more often when we battle surface, to see if it helps get the job done quicker, I know it's not supposed to, but we have a lot of mods installed and a lot of parameter changes...
D40

[gap]

Originally Posted by =SE=Sova

Thanks for the help Gap and the others.This is litle far beyond my knowledge.I can open scripts and do some changes,but i will need some time to translate this accurately and do step by step.I have never done enythig in SH5 mission editor,so i soppose i cant do the test mission.Have no so much time for this stuff.I will thry,but cant guarantie i will made it ,thry it and give you results from testing.

Creating a simple mission, without triggers, objectives etc, doesn't really require much skills, Sova. Give it a try when/if you get time for it!
I for one know just the basics of Mission Editor, but if needed I will be glad to help you for what I can

Originally Posted by =SE=Sova

I was expecting that some of you will recognise the problem and sugest an mod or single script changes.

Thank you guys,one more time.

As I said some posts back, a mod addressing the issue pointed out by you is on the making, but it can take long before ready.
Unfortunately there are tens of parameters that are reciprocally interacting to determine SH's damage system, and if we don't address them globally, trying instead to fix single aspects one-by-one, we risk to mess up something else.
If we want to undertake a general rebalance, we need first to collect as much historical information as possible, and to understand how each parameter is applied in game, in order to convert collected raw data into game settings.

Getting back to your problem, with all the limitations said above, two quick fixes could be either increasing your U-boat's armor to something above 20 or decreasing the armor penetration of low caliber shells to below 10. Just tell me if you are interested into applying one of these fixes, and I will tell you wich files/parameters you need to edit

Originally Posted by GT182

Hear is another question that I've asked before on the sub's guns.

Is it possible to change settings to make the flak guns on the subs do damage to shipping too? It would be great to have the extra protection while you're trying to sink that ship that returns fire on you.

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

I used the flak guns on a ship (I had to man the gun personally) and I cut that ship to pieces. I think I already mentioned most of this. What I still have to try is whether or not I can use the flak gun against say, an enemy's gun to silence it.
I can blow the lifeboats off the enemy ship and pieces of metal flying everywhere. I don't know if the flak gun will actually help win the day.
Also, you are right in the fact that I don't know if I was cutting any damage points off the ship. I think I'll man that gun more often when we battle surface, to see if it helps get the job done quicker, I know it's not supposed to, but we have a lot of mods installed and a lot of parameter changes...
D40

If you wanted to boost your Flak, you should edit 20mm_AP_shell parameters in shells.zon. Beware that most aircraft use the same ammunition, and your trick can backfire on you
If you want to avoid transforming plane's machine guns into deadly weapons, you should create a new shell type (duplicating one of the existing ones with s3d), give it the desired damage /armor penetration settings, and then replace the 20mm_AP_shell with the new one in sub flak guns sim files.

Originally Posted by sober

Nah , just hit the windows key and adjust the peramater and then go back to the main screen and load the single mission .

Thank you Klt Sober!

Originally Posted by troopie

Cheers for the heads up gap, excellent advice posted above. I'll make a start on this on the weekend.

Thank you troopie. Keep us informed on the results of your tests, please

[GT182]

Originally Posted by gap

If you wanted to boost your Flak, you should edit 20mm_AP_shell parameters in shells.zon. Beware that most aircraft use the same ammunition, and your trick can backfire on you

If you want to avoid transforming plane's machine guns into deadly weapons, you should create a new shell type (duplicating one of the existing ones with s3d), give it the desired damage /armor penetration settings, and then replace the 20mm_AP_shell with the new one in sub flak guns sim files.

Thanks for that Gap, but I wouldn't know what to do to change things around for making a mod. I'll leave that for you young lads that really know what you're doing. For now I can live with what we have. I just means being a lot more careful attacking armed shipping.

Besides, if I broke SH5 it I wouldn't know how to fix it. It would mean another reinstall and I don't think I want to do that again for a while. I've just gotten going agian with Happy Times and I still have bugs to work out from my mod soup. But.... I'm getting them straightened out little by little each time I get back to port.

[troopie]

Originally Posted by gap

Before you start, beware that there's a couple of extra settings which for sure affects global AI guns aiming, separately for cannons and AA guns. These parameters are found in sim.cfg (data/cfg folder), respectively under [AI Cannons] and [AI AA guns] headers, and they are called 'Max error angle'. In stock game they are set respectively to 3 and 4.5 deg, but IRAI changes this figure to 4.5 for both, which apparently is still not enough, despite the fact that, not taking in consideration elevation, an error of 4.5 deg should lead enemy ships to a maximum traverse error as high as 118 m to the right or to the left @ a range of 1.5 km

So is this to say that if I'm the target, the AI could accidently aim up to 4.5 deg off to the right of my actual position and if so, the shell would land 118m away from me (if I was 1.5 k's away)? I'm too lazy to do the trigonometry. Does this same factor apply to both elevation and traverse?

Is a modifyer applied over this factor to reflect crew skill level?

My stock file is showing 5deg for AA btw.

Originally Posted by volodya61

Chinese sailor

Cheers! At least it doesn't say anything derogatory like.. 'serial pest' or something

[troopie]

Originally Posted by gap

Following the tutorial posted in this thread you will learn all you need to know in order to create a simple mission in 5 minutes.

Okay well, this is rather embarrssing but, as far as file structure goes, I found the 'mission editor' tut thoroughly confusing, and consistently contradictory! Nothing against the author, probly more of a reflection of my I.Q. Anyway after much experimenting I've got my test mission underway but now I'm suffering a bad case of the X-boats!

Originally Posted by gap

Before you start, beware that there's a couple of extra settings which for sure affects global AI guns aiming, separately for cannons and AA guns. These parameters are found in sim.cfg (data/cfg folder), respectively under [AI Cannons] and [AI AA guns] headers, and they are called 'Max error angle'. In stock game they are set respectively to 3 and 4.5 deg, but IRAI changes this figure to 4.5 for both, which apparently is still not enough, despite the fact that, not taking in consideration elevation, an error of 4.5 deg should lead enemy ships to a maximum traverse error as high as 118 m to the right or to the left @ a range of 1.5 km

Anyway, X-boats aside, I was able to test many changes to the above lines with none seeming to have much effect. Tried many values from 0 and 0.1 anywhere up to 50.

Now, on to guns_radars_01.sim

[troopie]

Originally Posted by gap

• menu file => open => select guns_radars_01.GR2;
• menu file => merge => select guns_radars_01.sim (pointing to the file you had previously put into your test mod);

Have made said mod. Just want to ceck I have the right understanding of how this works: Once I have enabled it via jsgme and start using goblin editor, I point the editor to what would normally be the stock location of the file yes? And as jsgme is redirecting to my mod the changes will actually be made to the mod and not to the stock file itself, yes?

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by troopie

Have made said mod. Just want to ceck I have the right understanding of how this works: Once I have enabled it via jsgme and start using goblin editor, I point the editor to what would normally be the stock location of the file yes? And as jsgme is redirecting to my mod the changes will actually be made to the mod and not to the stock file itself, yes?

Copy the new file to a safe location like my documents . Because the file wont keep the changes if you unenable the mod afaik . If the mod is enabled then it will be in the stock data files . Also right click on the goblin icon and go to properties /compatability , tick disable visual themes .

[troopie]

Originally Posted by sober

. Because the file wont keep the changes if you unenable the mod afaik ..

Thats o.k. that's the plan, I'm just aiming to test the effects of changes at this stage, I don't necessarily wan't to keep any of them.

[troopie]

Any thoughts on my little X-boat problem sober? I currently have no mods activated. I pretty much follow every thing by the letter but did find the mission editor tut a little confusing regarding file structure. In the end I named the 'project', 'mission name' and 'mission title' all the same. Is this the right way to go? Seems an odd way to structure it to me, but after trying a few different combos that's the only way I could get it to work.

Sorry for all the stupid questions.

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by troopie

Any thoughts on my little X-boat problem sober? I currently have no mods activated. I pretty much follow every thing by the letter but did find the mission editor tut a little confusing regarding file structure. In the end I named the 'project', 'mission name' and 'mission title' all the same. Is this the right way to go? Seems an odd way to structure it to me, but after trying a few different combos that's the only way I could get it to work.

Sorry for all the stupid questions.

The crossed boats have been discussed before but i dont know where . Trevally or someone else will know the fix .

[gap]

Originally Posted by troopie

So is this to say that if I'm the target, the AI could accidently aim up to 4.5 deg off to the right of my actual position and if so, the shell would land 118m away from me (if I was 1.5 k's away)? I'm too lazy to do the trigonometry.

Theoretically, yes!
It is a simple trigonometry calculation:

max traverse error [m] = sine (max traverse error [deg]) * range

in our example, the maximum deviation should be equal to:

sine (4.5) * 1,500 ≈ 0.078 * 1,500 ≈ 118 m

Originally Posted by troopie

Does this same factor apply to both elevation and traverse?

Elevation is a bit more complicated, because bullet's motion is not linear, being affected by gravity. Gravity force (i.e. the change of vertical speed) is constant indeed, but what matters is the relation between it and the decreasing horizontal speed, wich in RL is affected on turn by muzzle velocity (the starting speed) and by bullet's weight and drag coefficient, both varying from gun to gun and from shell to shell.

In SH5 this model is strongly simplified, that's sure (I couldn't find any parameter relative to shell's weight and drag). But I ignore its details.

Note also that wind speeds should affect as well both traverse and elevation errors, but again, I ignore if this aspect is modelled in game.

Originally Posted by troopie

Is a modifyer applied over this factor to reflect crew skill level?

I am not sure about it, but I think so. This is something that would be worth experimenting on it

Originally Posted by troopie

Okay well, this is rather embarrssing but, as far as file structure goes, I found the 'mission editor' tut thoroughly confusing, and consistently contradictory! Nothing against the author, probly more of a reflection of my I.Q. Anyway after much experimenting I've got my test mission underway but now I'm suffering a bad case of the X-boats!

As said by sober this was a common occurrence when the first modders started creating custom missions. At some point they discovered what was causing it. IIRC I experienced myself the same issue once or twice, but I can't remember what I was doing wrong. Nevertheless, I will prepare a simplified ME step by step tutorial that should iron out the problem for you

Originally Posted by troopie

Anyway, X-boats aside, I was able to test many changes to the above lines with none seeming to have much effect. Tried many values from 0 and 0.1 anywhere up to 50.

Now, on to guns_radars_01.sim

Originally Posted by troopie

Have made said mod. Just want to ceck I have the right understanding of how this works: Once I have enabled it via jsgme and start using goblin editor, I point the editor to what would normally be the stock location of the file yes? And as jsgme is redirecting to my mod the changes will actually be made to the mod and not to the stock file itself, yes?

Follow the below steps, in the same order:

• Copy the wanted files wherever you want, and put them in the correct folder structure (to mimic the one of SH5). For example:
  MyMod/data/Library/ShipParts
  
  
• Edit the copied files
  
  
• Drop your mod (MyMod in our example) in the MODS folder, and enable it with JSGME, as you would do for any other mod

If you edit the files of your mod after having anabled it, your changes won't take any effect until you disable the mod and reenable it

Originally Posted by troopie

Sorry for all the stupid questions.

The only stupid questions I know of, are the ones that one refrained himself from

[troopie]

Originally Posted by gap

If you edit the files of your mod after having anabled it, your changes won't take any effect

Ooops... Time to go back to stage 1 and start again!

Thanks for pointing that out!