Texas leaving!?!

I will sell my house (That I just paid off) and move to the first State that bails from the craphouse!

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by privateer

I will sell my house (That I just paid off) and move to the first State that bails from the craphouse!

Good luck with that one. I'd love to see how fast things decline without federal revenue in these states, and then how fast they want to rejoin.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

Good luck with that one. I'd love to see how fast things decline without federal revenue in these states, and then how fast they want to rejoin.

Maybe they'll ship all the malingerers back to the entity that created them.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

Good luck with that one. I'd love to see how fast things decline without federal revenue in these states, and then how fast they want to rejoin.

Actually, giving up federal revenues would be part of the plan, and perfectly fine. See, that's how we get the people who life on the dole to come visit you. (permanently)

I don't see why the idea of a state leaving the Union is viewed with horror and hatred. What about the right of self-determination we're all so found of in the US?

[Oberon]

The thing that I think gets to me the most is that you have a country, the United States of America, that has done so much with itself as a nation united under a common cause, the freedom and liberty of man. People complain about the gap between the rich and the poor, or about government intervention, or a welfare state, but honestly America has never had it so good. If you were to go back, three hundred, two hundred, even a hundred years ago, or back to the 1930s, the average person of America could only dream about the sort of things that the average American has now, welfare state or not. So many people have sacrificed their lives for a nation built up of differing ideas, of differing identities, that the idea of tearing that all down just because people don't like who won the election or their ideas for the future of the nation, it boggles my mind.
America has done so much because it's United, the only thing it managed to achieve whilst not united was to get 3% of its population killed.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The thing that I think gets to me the most is that you have a country, the United States of America, that has done so much with itself as a nation united under a common cause, the freedom and liberty of man. People complain about the gap between the rich and the poor, or about government intervention, or a welfare state, but honestly America has never had it so good. If you were to go back, three hundred, two hundred, even a hundred years ago, or back to the 1930s, the average person of America could only dream about the sort of things that the average American has now, welfare state or not. So many people have sacrificed their lives for a nation built up of differing ideas, of differing identities, that the idea of tearing that all down just because people don't like who won the election or their ideas for the future of the nation, it boggles my mind.
America has done so much because it's United, the only thing it managed to achieve whilst not united was to get 3% of its population killed.

That's exactly how I see it. We're supposed to be United.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The thing that I think gets to me the most is that you have a country, the United States of America, that has done so much with itself as a nation united under a common cause, the freedom and liberty of man. People complain about the gap between the rich and the poor, or about government intervention, or a welfare state, but honestly America has never had it so good. If you were to go back, three hundred, two hundred, even a hundred years ago, or back to the 1930s, the average person of America could only dream about the sort of things that the average American has now, welfare state or not. So many people have sacrificed their lives for a nation built up of differing ideas, of differing identities, that the idea of tearing that all down just because people don't like who won the election or their ideas for the future of the nation, it boggles my mind.
America has done so much because it's United, the only thing it managed to achieve whilst not united was to get 3% of its population killed.

in response i will just say that there can come a point in time when a split in ideology will contribute to a nations crumble. In this case the US has been 50-50 on the issues for a long long time.

so i refer you to one simple phrase

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

in this case of secession, the outcome of the election is not the chief issue, perhaps it is one of many?

as i pointed out in prior posts, the widening deficet, the crippling debt which will never be recovered from - ever. the ever increasing size and power of the federal government. the list goes on... personally i think most if not all of the gripes the states have are legitimate.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

in response i will just say that there can come a point in time when a split in ideology will contribute to a nations crumble. In this case the US has been 50-50 on the issues for a long long time.

so i refer you to one simple phrase

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

in this case of secession, the outcome of the election is not the chief issue, perhaps it is one of many?

as i pointed out in prior posts, the widening deficet, the crippling debt which will never be recovered from - ever. the ever increasing size and power of the federal government. the list goes on... personally i think most if not all of the gripes the states have are legitimate.

The secessionists love to throw around the Declaration of Independence like they're some latter day patriots.

They are not. They're cowards. They're cowards and extremists and worthy of all the contempt that any true patriot can muster. Treasonous, seditionist garbage always is.

The right got their ass kicked in a fair and square election. You're lying to yourself or others if you think it's about anything but that. President Romney would have been facing the exact same situation at this date. The election is what spurred this joke of a topic.

All of the tools of democracy have been given to the right wing. They have the ability and the right to make this country into whatever they want it to be. Their voice was heard. But they lost, just the same. But just because they got their ass kicked doesn't mean that they get to break up the nation.

It's "America: Love it or LEAVE it." Not "Love it or secede."

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

in response i will just say that there can come a point in time when a split in ideology will contribute to a nations crumble. In this case the US has been 50-50 on the issues for a long long time.

so i refer you to one simple phrase

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

in this case of secession, the outcome of the election is not the chief issue, perhaps it is one of many?

as i pointed out in prior posts, the widening deficet, the crippling debt which will never be recovered from - ever. the ever increasing size and power of the federal government. the list goes on... personally i think most if not all of the gripes the states have are legitimate.

That's as may be, but is succession really the answer? I can't see it doing anything other than setting back the progress of the United States by several decades and possibly resulting in another 3% of the population getting killed.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Actually, giving up federal revenues would be part of the plan, and perfectly fine. See, that's how we get the people who life on the dole to come visit you. (permanently)

Well just because Texas raises more than it receives in federal funds doesn't mean the loss of those funds could easily be replaced in the event of a secession.

I don't see why the idea of a state leaving the Union is viewed with horror and hatred. What about the right of self-determination we're all so found of in the US?

I absolutely view it with horror and hatred. One nation, indivisible. We're Texans but we're also Americans. That's not something I hold cheaply.

Well just because Texas raises more than it receives in federal funds doesn't mean the loss of those funds could easily be replaced in the event of a secession.

How much would independence destroy the texas role in the US import markets and domestic shipping

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Well just because Texas raises more than it receives in federal funds doesn't mean the loss of those funds could easily be replaced in the event of a secession.



I absolutely view it with horror and hatred. One nation, indivisible. We're Texans but we're also Americans. That's not something I hold cheaply.

It's okay to hold a different opinion, right? I'm a Texan first, American second.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

It's okay to hold a different opinion, right? I'm a Texan first, American second.

not where mookie is concerned...

if you dont agree with him apparently you're garbage and cowardly trash.

i dont really have an opinion of secessionist movement at this point, i dont think things have gotten that bad in our country yet, but the writing is on the wall. America is more and more a welfare state every day and those ALWAYS fail.

mookie can helm the ship all the way to the sea floor if he likes... but the life boats are there for a reason.

Any government should tremble before its people. period.

when this no longer happens the people need options.

to argue that no matter how bad it gets and how bad the division that secession is not an option - ever... is very closed minded. After all it is the entire concept that birthed this nation into existence

No nation has yet graced the face of the earth forever.

[Oberon]

If that is the prevailing feeling then it would dovetail into the popular theory of the end of America and the rise of Asia. One of those self-fulfilling prophecies I think, a fear of decay leads to decay and destruction.

Ultimately it's Americas decision, but it would be a terrible shame to see a nation that has had a great a history as America to destroy itself through civil war.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

It's okay to hold a different opinion, right? I'm a Texan first, American second.

I see it as the other way around, and I guess that's why we have a difference of opinion.

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

not where mookie is concerned...

if you dont agree with him apparently you're garbage and cowardly trash.

Seditionists, traitors, and treasonists are indeed garbage and cowardly trash. That's why it's a crime eligible for the death penalty.

But nice try in trying to twist my words. I see you've gone to the August School of Debate.