A World of Harm for Women

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by August

See my preceding post. You can't truthfully claim to be a newsman if you post propaganda Gerald.

Who said I do not know the difference between propaganda and news?,the entry is made when there is an opinion of,the newspaper.

[August]

Originally Posted by Vendor

Who said I do not know the difference between propaganda and news?,the entry is made when there is an opinion of,the newspaper.

Opinion is just that, opinion. It is not news.

[gimpy117]

Republicans complain about people on welfare having more welfare babies (actually we really all do) ....

....and then remove access to contraception




but to me the moral standpoint of: I don't agree with it, so why do i need to pay for it?

well in that case can I not pay any of the debt for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

....and then remove access to contraception

Can you show where the Republicans have removed access to contraception?
There's a big difference between removing access and not being willing to pay for it.

[gimpy117]

not paying for it is pretty much removing access to the under privileged.

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

not paying for it is pretty much removing access to the under privileged.

The underprivileged do not require birth control in order to survive. Should we buy them cars and houses too?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

The underprivileged do not require birth control in order to survive. Should we buy them cars and houses too?

As far as cars and homes, well...there is program to turn in your old car. It is repaired and sold(very small price or possible free) to the needy. I will not say this program has been exploited yet as I have not investigated. As far as homes, section 8 housing. Very cheap or sometimes free. Food stamps. Free cell phones. So yes, let's toss in some condoms or morning after pills. The state of MD will go as far as paying your electric bill if you show just cause. Usually some trumped up hard luck case. I know, my near do well brother in law got his $1200.00 bill paid. Let's make a party of it. Free goods for all!

[Betonov]

Stupid people will breed like rabits.
I'd rather see €10 of my monthly taxes go for the pills than €200 for their large families. Or watch the news full of some poor sods that can't take care of their 12 kids.

[AVGWarhawk]

Or watch the news full of some poor sods that can't take care of their 12 kids.

That poor sod's problem(can't keep it in his pants) has now become my problem. Is it just me or is there a underlying problem here? I find little amusement in supporting someones 5 minutes of good time(resulting pregnancy) in the back of a car or wherever. Even with every contraception device known to man left in his wallet, under the sink, in his car or at the planned parenthood agency the end result is the same. The entire nation supporting the sod's indiscretions. In short, were does it stop? Why does society continue to pander to the nonsense? The problems are never fixed. The just offer another serviced that comes out of tax money.

[Betonov]

Lesser evil and all that jazz

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

That poor sod's problem(can't keep it in his pants) has now become my problem. Is it just me or is there a underlying problem here? I find little amusement in supporting someones 5 minutes of good time(resulting pregnancy) in the back of a car or wherever. Even with every contraception device known to man left in his wallet, under the sink, in his car or at the planned parenthood agency the end result is the same. The entire nation supporting the sod's indiscretions. In short, were does it stop? Why does society continue to pander to the nonsense? The problems are never fixed. The just offer another serviced that comes out of tax money.

But then you could also be pragmatic about it - say your choice is giving the poor sod a few hundred dollars' worth of tax-subsidized pills, or thousands upon thousands of dollars in subsidies for supporting the kids. Or you don't support the kids, in which case there is a high chance that said kids will, without supervision, turn to gangs. That creates some serious problems for the average taxpayer. And then assuming the police do their job, said kids end up in jail, where they only cost more taxpayer money. And if you prefer shooting them on sight as an alternative, then you risk seriously eroding civil rights that your very society is founded on. I know this is a bit of a slippery slope, but either way the fact is that there is a direct link to far more serious social problems here, social problems that in one way or another will always cost you (or your fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizen) something.

The problem is that "some sod's indiscretions" are, unfortunately, never just that sod's problem. That doesn't make him right to behave the way he does, but by virtue of living in a human society, you always end up paying in one way or another. And if you don't, somebody else pays in your stead. Sad maybe, but a fact.

So, you know, maybe those "free" pills aren't such a bad solution from a cost-effectiveness standpoint...

[AVGWarhawk]

But then you could also be pragmatic about it - say your choice is giving the poor sod a few hundred dollars' worth of tax-subsidized pills, or thousands upon thousands of dollars in subsidies for supporting the kids.

The sod is given pills and thousands of dollars for his kids. First problem, he has kids. He/she is not using the pill. Second problem, by and large the sod spends the money on anything but his kids. He can use the card for alcohol, cigarettes, lottery, gambling or a new pair if Air Jordan shoes. I have witnessed this type of spending at the cash registers. The sod can not be forced to take pills/condoms and use them. Nor can he be forced to spend money on his kids.

high chance that said kids will, without supervision, turn to gangs.

Welcome to absentee parenting. It had been a ongoing problem for decades.

That creates some serious problems for the average taxpayer.

That is a understatement of the highest degree.

And then assuming the police do their job, said kids end up in jail, where they only cost more taxpayer money.

You see a recurring theme here?

The problem is that "some sod's indiscretions" are, unfortunately, never just that sod's problem. That doesn't make him right to behave the way he does, but by virtue of living in a human society, you always end up paying in one way or another. And if you don't, somebody else pays in your stead. Sad maybe, but a fact.

Like Hillary Clinton said, "It takes a village to raise a child." Problem is, some of the villagers do not contribute back.

So, you know, maybe those "free" pills aren't such a bad solution from a cost-effectiveness standpoint...

Not if the sod is not using the pills and other contraceptives. Again, they are not forced to use contraceptives. However, I suspect there are quite a few that do utilize the program. I do not have the statistics. There is no clear cut answer to the issue at hand.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by CCIP

But then you could also be pragmatic about it - say your choice is giving the poor sod a few hundred dollars' worth of tax-subsidized pills, or thousands upon thousands of dollars in subsidies for supporting the kids. Or you don't support the kids, in which case there is a high chance that said kids will, without supervision, turn to gangs. That creates some serious problems for the average taxpayer. And then assuming the police do their job, said kids end up in jail, where they only cost more taxpayer money. And if you prefer shooting them on sight as an alternative, then you risk seriously eroding civil rights that your very society is founded on. I know this is a bit of a slippery slope, but either way the fact is that there is a direct link to far more serious social problems here, social problems that in one way or another will always cost you (or your fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizen) something.

The problem is that "some sod's indiscretions" are, unfortunately, never just that sod's problem. That doesn't make him right to behave the way he does, but by virtue of living in a human society, you always end up paying in one way or another. And if you don't, somebody else pays in your stead. Sad maybe, but a fact.

So, you know, maybe those "free" pills aren't such a bad solution from a cost-effectiveness standpoint...

Great points. Saves me from having to type them out.

You can try an idealist and bang the "personal responsibility" drum and watch the crime rate soar, or you can be a realist and invest a pittance into making birth control easily accessible to all. Easy choice to me.

[AVGWarhawk]

invest a pittance into making birth control easily accessible to all

Which is simply saying we tried. The problem still persists. There is more than mere pittance spent on birth control. It is the other items that subsidize these folk. The ones that make a career out of working the system. The rolls continue to swell.

[August]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

You can try an idealist and bang the "personal responsibility" drum and watch the crime rate soar, or you can be a realist and invest a pittance into making birth control easily accessible to all.

And still watch the crime rate soar because birth control is not related to poverty or crime.