Cristoforo Colombo

Sailor Steve · 10-12-12, 09:18 PM

1493

January 4: Niña set sail for home.

January 6: Pinta was sighted, and joined Niña for the homeward voyage.

February 13: Niña and Pinta were separated by a storm that nearly wrecked both caravels.

February 15: Land was sighted, but due to the storm Niña was unable to land for three more days.

February 18: Niña dropped anchor by the village of Nossa Senhora dos Anjos, on the island of Santa Maria in the Azores.

February 19: Half the crew went ashore to attend mass for their safe delivery from the storm. The mayor of the island, Juan de Castaneda, arrested them and locked them in the local jail. When the mayor called on Columbus, the admiral demanded to know why they were being treated this way. The mayor replied that it was Portuguese territory and demanded that Columbus leave immediately. Columbus threatened to level the town with his four cannon and take one hundred Portuguese back to Spain as captives.

February 20: another storm blew Niña out to sea, and Columbus headed for the island of San Miguel.

February 21: Unable to find San Miguel, Columbus returned to Santa Maria.

The mayor of Nossa Senhora demanded to see Columbus's charter form the Spanish sovereigns. After verifying his credentials, and believing the admiral might do what he threatened, Castaneda released the Niña's crew and gave them provisions.

March 1: After weathering yet another storm Niña put into Bayona, in northern Spain. Martin Pinzón, believing Columbus to be dead, wrote to their Sovereign Majesties asking permission to come to court and give a report of the voyage. He was told that they would wait until they heard from their Admiral.

March 4: A battered Niña put into port at Lisbon. Columbus was risking capture by the Portuguese, but the little caravel was in no condition to sail any further without repairs.

March 8: Columbus received a letter from King João II, inviting him to come to court.

March 13: After recieving assurances from King João that he has only friendship for their Majesties of Spain and the admiral himself, Columbus sails in the refurbished ship.

March 15: Niña sailed into Palos harbor. Later the same day Pinta puts into port. Columbus would go on to fame and glory. Pinzón, devastated by his experiences, died within a few weeks of his homecoming.

Aftermath: Columbus considered Niña to be a lucky ship, and she accompanied him on his other three voyages. On the second voyage Columbus discovered a large groupe of islands. Reminded of a legend of a group of young nuns slaughtered while on a pilgrimage, Columbus called them Las Once Mil Virgenes, the Virgin Islands.

I have a lot more about all the explorers of the period, but today is Columbus day so I'll stop here.

Information was all from The European Discovery of America and Admiral of the Ocean Sea, both by Samuel Eliot Morison

Gerald · 10-12-12, 09:35 PM

Interesting reading,

soopaman2 · 10-13-12, 01:21 AM

I am glad an Italian found the place, I just wish it was not done with Spanish money.

Dontcha know anyone of European descent is evil in America now?

My family showed up in the early 1900s, yet I am still a(n ex slave owning) cracker to some, and a smallpox blanket giving jerk off to others.

This holiday is sensitive to some, and I get that, but how far back can we go to blame others?

Cybermat47 · 10-13-12, 01:26 AM

520th anniversary of a guy arriving in a place that a Greenlander found hundreds of years before and said guy going around chopping of Native's hands when they said "I don't want to be christian"

soopaman2 · 10-13-12, 01:31 AM

Cortez is seen as an even bigger hero, and he massacred millions willingly, with guns and cannon.

Columbus did most his damage through disease the natives lacked immunity to.

It is what it is, I just wish folks would stop harping on the past, considering none of us had anything to do with it.

Jimbuna · 10-13-12, 05:08 AM

When you consider it was 520 years ago then consider how recently America gained independance it brings into perspective just how young a country she is.

Oberon · 10-13-12, 06:15 AM

Sailor Steve · 10-13-12, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

520th anniversary of a guy arriving in a place that a Greenlander found hundreds of years before

I also did a timeline of Leif Erikson's voyages. The problem is that the Norwegian/Iceland/Greenland folks didn't stay. It's like saying the Wright Brothers weren't really the first to fly. They weren't, but they were the first to repeat the experiment and show how it should be done. No, Columbus wasn't the first, but he was the one who made it stick and showed the rest of the world how to do it.

Quote:

and said guy going around chopping of Native's hands when they said "I don't want to be christian"

Do you have any evidence for that claim? Surviving records indicate that Columbus tried to stop the abuse of the natives, and it was the Hidalgos who perpetrated it. If you don't know who they were I'll gladly explain.

Armistead · 10-13-12, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Do you have any evidence for that claim? Surviving records indicate that Columbus tried to stop the abuse of the natives, and it was the Hidalgos who perpetrated it. If you don't know who they were I'll gladly explain.

I think his point was we eventuallly stole from and killed most the natives we couldn't convert. Course our diseases killed as much. I agree this was not so much during the period of Columbus.

Sailor Steve · 10-13-12, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

I think his point was we eventuallly stole from and killed most the natives we couldn't convert. Course our diseases killed as much. I agree this was not so much during the period of Columbus.

I agree, and I think it started right then and there. My point is that the best evidence indicates that Columbus himself wasn't involved.

I read a lovely book a couple of years ago (I can't remember the name offhand) that explained how English traders and military men tried to "free" the natives from Spanish abuses, then turned around and did the same things themselves. They didn't really care; it was just an excuse to get the natives to rebel. All they were really after was their piece of the pie.

Takeda Shingen · 10-13-12, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

520th anniversary of a guy arriving in a place that a Greenlander found hundreds of years before and said guy going around chopping of Native's hands when they said "I don't want to be christian"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_c...f_the_Americas

Quote:

It is unclear why the short-term settlements did not become permanent, though it was in part because of hostile relations with the indigenous peoples, referred to as Skrælings by the Norse.

Vikings hostile to outsiders? Never.

Cybermat47 · 10-13-12, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

This holiday is sensitive to some, and I get that, but how far back can we go to blame others?

I know.
People shouldn't judge others on the actions of their ancestors or, even worse, national stereotypes.

But, as I say above, Columbus was a massive, extremist jerk, who, contrary to popular belief, died rich and comfortable.

Sailor Steve · 10-13-12, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

IBut, as I say above, Columbus was a massive, extremist jerk,

In some ways, yes. Most men of conviction are.

Quote:

who, contrary to popular belief, died rich and comfortable.

Comfortable, yes. Rich? No. In fact he embraced his faith more fully in his last years and wrote two books on religion. Since he had been deposed as Governor the crown never paid him the promised 10%, and his heirs sued the monarchs in a protracted set of cases lasting eighteen years. The family eventually won the cases, and recieved a perpetual allotment from the crown.

Hottentot · 10-13-12, 11:45 AM

A few years ago I read a translated logbook of Columbus. It was a fascinating document not so much because of the events it described, but more because it gave a great insight into how Columbus and his men thought and saw the world. It was a great glimpse to its era.

Their encounters with the natives were especially great, with Columbus being sure that this is India, these people are the natives of the famous land and when they talked about their wars with the other tribes, they in fact meant the "Great Khan" of the East that Columbus was also looking forward to meet if I recall.

Easy to read as well, the entries were fairly short.

10-12-12, 09:18 PM	#1
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	1493 January 4: Niña set sail for home. January 6: Pinta was sighted, and joined Niña for the homeward voyage. February 13: Niña and Pinta were separated by a storm that nearly wrecked both caravels. February 15: Land was sighted, but due to the storm Niña was unable to land for three more days. February 18: Niña dropped anchor by the village of Nossa Senhora dos Anjos, on the island of Santa Maria in the Azores. February 19: Half the crew went ashore to attend mass for their safe delivery from the storm. The mayor of the island, Juan de Castaneda, arrested them and locked them in the local jail. When the mayor called on Columbus, the admiral demanded to know why they were being treated this way. The mayor replied that it was Portuguese territory and demanded that Columbus leave immediately. Columbus threatened to level the town with his four cannon and take one hundred Portuguese back to Spain as captives. February 20: another storm blew Niña out to sea, and Columbus headed for the island of San Miguel. February 21: Unable to find San Miguel, Columbus returned to Santa Maria. The mayor of Nossa Senhora demanded to see Columbus's charter form the Spanish sovereigns. After verifying his credentials, and believing the admiral might do what he threatened, Castaneda released the Niña's crew and gave them provisions. March 1: After weathering yet another storm Niña put into Bayona, in northern Spain. Martin Pinzón, believing Columbus to be dead, wrote to their Sovereign Majesties asking permission to come to court and give a report of the voyage. He was told that they would wait until they heard from their Admiral. March 4: A battered Niña put into port at Lisbon. Columbus was risking capture by the Portuguese, but the little caravel was in no condition to sail any further without repairs. March 8: Columbus received a letter from King João II, inviting him to come to court. March 13: After recieving assurances from King João that he has only friendship for their Majesties of Spain and the admiral himself, Columbus sails in the refurbished ship. March 15: Niña sailed into Palos harbor. Later the same day Pinta puts into port. Columbus would go on to fame and glory. Pinzón, devastated by his experiences, died within a few weeks of his homecoming. Aftermath: Columbus considered Niña to be a lucky ship, and she accompanied him on his other three voyages. On the second voyage Columbus discovered a large groupe of islands. Reminded of a legend of a group of young nuns slaughtered while on a pilgrimage, Columbus called them Las Once Mil Virgenes, the Virgin Islands. I have a lot more about all the explorers of the period, but today is Columbus day so I'll stop here. Information was all from The European Discovery of America and Admiral of the Ocean Sea, both by Samuel Eliot Morison __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo Last edited by Sailor Steve; 10-13-12 at 03:23 PM.

10-12-12, 09:35 PM	#2
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Interesting reading, __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

10-13-12, 01:21 AM	#3
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	I am glad an Italian found the place, I just wish it was not done with Spanish money. Dontcha know anyone of European descent is evil in America now? My family showed up in the early 1900s, yet I am still a(n ex slave owning) cracker to some, and a smallpox blanket giving jerk off to others. This holiday is sensitive to some, and I get that, but how far back can we go to blame others? __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

10-13-12, 01:26 AM	#4
Cybermat47 Willing Webfooted Beast Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 5,408 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 23	520th anniversary of a guy arriving in a place that a Greenlander found hundreds of years before and said guy going around chopping of Native's hands when they said "I don't want to be christian" __________________ Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620 Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

10-13-12, 01:31 AM	#5
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Cortez is seen as an even bigger hero, and he massacred millions willingly, with guns and cannon. Columbus did most his damage through disease the natives lacked immunity to. It is what it is, I just wish folks would stop harping on the past, considering none of us had anything to do with it. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

10-13-12, 05:08 AM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,646 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	When you consider it was 520 years ago then consider how recently America gained independance it brings into perspective just how young a country she is. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-13-12, 06:15 AM	#7
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20

10-13-12, 11:45 AM	#14
Hottentot Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: My private socialist utopia of Finland Posts: 1,918 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	A few years ago I read a translated logbook of Columbus. It was a fascinating document not so much because of the events it described, but more because it gave a great insight into how Columbus and his men thought and saw the world. It was a great glimpse to its era. Their encounters with the natives were especially great, with Columbus being sure that this is India, these people are the natives of the famous land and when they talked about their wars with the other tribes, they in fact meant the "Great Khan" of the East that Columbus was also looking forward to meet if I recall. Easy to read as well, the entries were fairly short. __________________ Хотели как лучше, а получилось как всегда.