Germany and France vow to strengthen ties

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

who would be a better candidate for paying than those guys who lost the war?

The smaller guys who also lost the war.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

The smaller guys who also lost the war.

Yep. Occasionally we hear in our media here that in Finland their is growing demand to quit over the Euro, or at least not paying for the Southern countries anymore. If you Fins are clever, you really do that. In Germany, such a proposal would be a hopeless cause. We will accept to burn and fall with it all until the bitter end. But you Fins must not follow our obsession for self-destruction!

Holland would be well-advised to quit, to, also Austria. Leave the French alone with the Frankenstein monster they have created, shall the French pay themselves to death for the Southern countries they love so much.

Oh wait. They hang on the German drip already, too, just deceive it cleverly via the ECB and Euro policies. - As a German, when you are screwed, then you are really screwed totally.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yep. Occasionally we hear in our media here that in Finland their is growing demand to quit over the Euro, or at least not paying for the Southern countries anymore. If you Fins are clever, you really do that. In Germany, such a proposal would be a hopeless cause. We will accept to burn and fall with it all until the bitter end. But you Fins must not follow our obsession for self-destruction!

Holland would be well-advised to quit, to, also Austria. Leave the French alone with the Frankenstein monster they have created, shall the French pay themselves to death for the Southern countries they love so much.

Oh wait. They hang on the German drip already, too, just deceive it cleverly via the ECB and Euro policies. - As a German, when you are screwed, then you are really screwed totally.

Still stuck on this northern industrious folk paying for the lazy southerners eh? One who is so critical of the falsehoods we are all fed.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by joea

Still stuck on this northern industrious folk paying for the lazy southerners eh? One who is so critical of the falsehoods we are all fed.

I see it is still popular to simply accuse us evil Germans and expect us to pay for you eternally, while denying the responsibility of your own people for your own state and your own corrupted system.

Well, already the ancient Egypts called the Greek "their spoilt little children".

If you want to accuse anyone, then accuse your own citizens who by overwhelming majority willed to be accomplice in a corrupt and rotten system as long as they benefitted from it, and accuse your own elites and politicians who are at war with your people since I do not long how long. Not before thiese ways did not function anymore you started to revolt a bit. Instead of accusing others for running their states better than you run yours, you should see them as an example by which you could learn how to run your own state. Because at the heart of the Greek problem lies that the Greek people never have learned how to run a state, and replaced it with corruption, bribery and nepotism. That worked because as long as your country had a geostrategic importance and thus was important for superior countries, they willed to pay for your deficits that you created by your ways. First they external thrad was the Osdman em,pire, later it was the USSR. But you do not have that important geostrategic meaning to offer anymore, your geostrategic position is not that important anymore after the cold war ended. Your favorite trading item - geostrategic position - does not sell anymore. You now face the consequences of your rotten system in full, without others automatically jumping to your side to compensate your deficits. So now you better change your ways, and learn how to run your banana-republic, - or you will forever stay in the swamp you are in now.

Not before you accept responsibility for your own fate, will your situation ever improve. Look at Finland, they had very serious financial and economic troubles, and if they would have done like Greece does today, they still would have them, and would be dependent, and would have no reason to be proud. But they did not do like that, but spit in their hands, tightened their belts, and got to work on their economy and state. today, they are well off, and I have a damn amount of respect for what the current generation of Fins has achieved. And I have strong sympathy for any Fin now complaining why Greece expects to be given a free ride at the expense of Finland and other billions-net-payers - when Finland achieved what it did by its own work and responsibility and sacrifice.

BTW, if others pay billions and billions for you and ruins his own future, while you still tell them forged statistics and lies, the last thing you may want to do is to even accuse them and attacking them over and over again. Responsible for your misery in the first is - not us, but you. And we accept high damages to ourselves just to keep you floating. And for that we get attacks in return. It is this attitude that has many Germans showing Greece the middlefinger only anymore.

No, Joea, I completely leave you in the rain over this.

[Kloef]

Europe should kick Greece out so we can look at the concequences for the others that need to be kicked out..good riddance.

And as far as Greece goes, what Skybird says..because i will have to pay contribution for the rest of my life while they sit back and hold their hand up

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kloef

while they sit back and hold their hand up

Maybe not that simplistic in the individual family and household. But the Greek state is a total and complete mess. I would even ask whether it really is a functional state in modern understanding. However, as long as the Greek population does not raise against the criminal and corrupted elites and make short process with them, I do not see any reason why they should deserve any form of solidarity. Instead. since years always the same liars and cheaters and gangster get elected and send to Brussel to get more money.

But the fight of the elites against the people seems to be a red trail throughout Greek history. And I doubt I live long enough to finally see them coming to terms with the modern present, sorting their state and send their corrupt elite as well as their own corrupt mentality to hell where both belong. The overblown Greek bureaucracy already was famous in the Roman empire, because it helps to deceive over the real dimension of the nepotism and bribery haunting the place.

Young Greeks with good education who are well-trained craftsmen and academics, I would like to see being welcomed in Germany. We could really use them, and we should help to make them feel home here so that they stay for life. Demographics and aging of society force us into the defensive, we need qualified migrants willing to integrate. Same is true for the Spaniards. I do not know to what degree bureaucratic realities in Germany really are that inviting to foreigners, but these two groups belong to those that really should be welcomed by us. Criterion must be qualification, willingness to fully integrate (which imo is an obligation to provide by any migrant in any country he moves to) and the realistic perspective of turning into net tax payers instead of remaining to be net wellfare receivers (means the qualification of the migrants must be in need in the hosting country).

[Kloef]

But Skybird, it has been common practise for alot of European youngsters with a high education level to seek out their oppertunities all over Europe, that's nothing new..

It's just a matter of being 'attractive' enough to get those people to live in your country, and stay.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Kloef

Europe should kick Greece out so we can look at the concequences for the others that need to be kicked out..good riddance.

And as far as Greece goes, what Skybird says..because i will have to pay contribution for the rest of my life while they sit back and hold their hand up

Stuff it up your dyke ok.

[Catfish]

Germany and France vow to strengthen lies


Sorry, i seem to have read that wrong .. but then, have i ?

[joea]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No, Joea, I completely leave you in the rain over this.

I thought you'd answer something like this. You understand nothing. Goodbye.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

The smaller guys who also lost the war.

Codswallop, Holland won, anyway that is all garbage. I've alread posted articles a long time ago so either search yourself or try to look beyond the crap the EU is feeding everyone as to the root causes of the crisis.

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by joea

Codswallop, Holland won, anyway that is all garbage. I've alread posted articles a long time ago so either search yourself or try to look beyond the crap the EU is feeding everyone as to the root causes of the crisis.

How about taking a chill-pill and trying again?

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yep. Occasionally we hear in our media here that in Finland their is growing demand to quit over the Euro, or at least not paying for the Southern countries anymore. If you Fins are clever, you really do that. In Germany, such a proposal would be a hopeless cause. We will accept to burn and fall with it all until the bitter end. But you Fins must not follow our obsession for self-destruction!

I'm not sure if I would talk about any demand yet. The ones who do demand it tend to be loud, but I don't know if it's the popular opinion yet (any Finn with statistics, feel free to correct me.) And it's the payment packages that get most of the criticism, though people seem to be becoming more sceptical towards the Union itself too. Really, hard to say based on just personal observations.

And with the current administration it's just not going to happen. I'm also very sceptical of the True Finns' potential as well, and they are just about the only party that could try achieving something as radical as that.

[Jimbuna]

Regardless of whatever side or viewpoint you take I think everyone can agree on one thing...the EU is in financial crisis.

What bothers me most is I don't see anyone learning any lessons from the situation but rather a collection of individual countries going their own way toward whatever they believe to be the best way for a solution to them as individual nations.

I fear it will all go belly up in the end and hope Britain withdraws before that day is upon us.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What bothers me most is I don't see anyone learning any lessons from the situation but rather a collection of individual countries going their own way toward whatever they believe to be the best way for a solution to them as individual nations.

Was it ever going to end any other way?
As I said to the chaps on TS last night, you can't get a group of countries that have spent pretty much their entire histories beating each other senseless and suddenly expect them to put their differences aside and not put their own nation first. The Euro was doomed to fail from the start, not because of finances, or not just because of it, but because of human nature. We're just not ready for that level of co-ordination yet, heck I mean look at the UN and the tangled inoperative mess that that has become from the good intentions of post-World War II. National pride and motives will seep into any political agenda.

[Kloef]

France and Germany have "a very special responsibility, we form the heart of Europe", he said.

Translation: 'we are living the dream that we think we own Europe'

Maybe they should think about working together to dismantle all those rusty nuclear plants on the French border, the Germans allrady shut theirs, what about France? I mean they allready know eachothers borders like no other country ánd it would be really nice to aviod this nuclear disaster then wait for it to happen, right France?

And don't worry, the rich countries will pay as they allways have, n'est pas?