Germany and France vow to strengthen ties

[Kloef]

Europe should kick Greece out so we can look at the concequences for the others that need to be kicked out..good riddance.

And as far as Greece goes, what Skybird says..because i will have to pay contribution for the rest of my life while they sit back and hold their hand up

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kloef

while they sit back and hold their hand up

Maybe not that simplistic in the individual family and household. But the Greek state is a total and complete mess. I would even ask whether it really is a functional state in modern understanding. However, as long as the Greek population does not raise against the criminal and corrupted elites and make short process with them, I do not see any reason why they should deserve any form of solidarity. Instead. since years always the same liars and cheaters and gangster get elected and send to Brussel to get more money.

But the fight of the elites against the people seems to be a red trail throughout Greek history. And I doubt I live long enough to finally see them coming to terms with the modern present, sorting their state and send their corrupt elite as well as their own corrupt mentality to hell where both belong. The overblown Greek bureaucracy already was famous in the Roman empire, because it helps to deceive over the real dimension of the nepotism and bribery haunting the place.

Young Greeks with good education who are well-trained craftsmen and academics, I would like to see being welcomed in Germany. We could really use them, and we should help to make them feel home here so that they stay for life. Demographics and aging of society force us into the defensive, we need qualified migrants willing to integrate. Same is true for the Spaniards. I do not know to what degree bureaucratic realities in Germany really are that inviting to foreigners, but these two groups belong to those that really should be welcomed by us. Criterion must be qualification, willingness to fully integrate (which imo is an obligation to provide by any migrant in any country he moves to) and the realistic perspective of turning into net tax payers instead of remaining to be net wellfare receivers (means the qualification of the migrants must be in need in the hosting country).

[Kloef]

But Skybird, it has been common practise for alot of European youngsters with a high education level to seek out their oppertunities all over Europe, that's nothing new..

It's just a matter of being 'attractive' enough to get those people to live in your country, and stay.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kloef

But Skybird, it has been common practise for alot of European youngsters with a high education level to seek out their oppertunities all over Europe, that's nothing new..

It's just a matter of being 'attractive' enough to get those people to live in your country, and stay.

That simple it is not. Germany in the past feared to be linked to the racial issues of the Third Reich and the "Selektion" of Jews at the gates to KZs if it would dare to be discriminating "good" from "not so mush wanted" migrants. Other nations like the US have much lesser self-restrictions to discriminate according to their own interest, and so a good amount of brainy imigrants and qualified people ended up not in Germany, but in other places - leaving many social wellfare receivers coming to us instead, people who could not make it to the preferred nations due to their low social status or lacking education. Additionally in the past Germ,an bureaucracy was such that foreign qualified migrants faced more problems than necessary. Some years ago we changed laws, and a wave of top-computer experts form India swapped in. But many of them have left again, not feeling well over here, and the request by such highly qualified employees has faded again.

After the war, there came a wave of guest workers from Italy, Greece, Yugoslavia anbd Turkey to Germany. Many Spaniards and Italians meanwhile have moved back, because they did not want to stay forever anyway, and those who stick with us in germany fit in nicely and integrated, and are indeed now part of German life over here. Many Yugos move dback after the wars fade don the balkans, some stayed, also fitting in. Only the Turks came from beginning on to stay forever, and never planned to move back, the first generation was sent by Ankara and came from Anatolia, the most poor areas in Turkey, and one can understand that they do not wish to ever move back to a life so poor and miserable that it reminds of that of slave farmers in the 18th or even 17th century.

Last decade, the trend of the 50s and 60s reversed, Germans found no jobs over here, and first dsicovered the possibility to work in other countries , but close to the border, whcih is a common model still in the Danish-German border area, the border to Holland, France, and some time later Poland as well. Some Germans moved over to stay in the other nation and build their existence there. But more guest workers - this time German guest workers moved to Italy and especially Spain, these often were craftsmen who were liked due to their "German quality work" and German "punctuality: Also, especially in Spain, they were liked because they were stupid enough to even work in the heat hours of Siesta around midday. This was before the financial crisis broke out.

In the past two or three years we noticed an increasing stream of young migrants from Greece and Spain now moving at our direction again. Since decreasing population numbers and falling numbers of young Germans make themselves felt on the German labor market, we indeed could need them well if they are qualified. Language schools report that the demand for courses has exploded in the past 24 months, and again they say the major share of their new students are Spaniards and Greeks, mainly academics, if I recall it correctly. I think Portuguese also form a bigger group than other nationalities, and Poles.

[Skybird]

Oh look, newsflash just in: the Greek government has lied to Europe once again, the deficits in its budget calculations have been found by the Troika to be twice as big as Samaras has claimed. Here is little doubt that in Greece the furor against the Troika will reach new heights. Not Samaras is guilty - no, the Troika is guilty: for having made known the cheat.

Meanwhile Portugal has announced to abandon its strict economical consolidation policy due to pressure from the street. Bill goes to Germany, Finland, Austria, Holland once again.

And the ECB wants to lever the bailout guarantee by a factor of four, then reaching beyond 2 trillion. Who is to guarantee for the risks and will need to pay (because the guarantee case will become true sooner or later)?= Well, you can figure.

The thimbleriggers march in the streets again, and madness dances inside the houses.

[Kloef]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Oh look, newsflash just in: the Greek government has lied to Europe once again, the deficits in its budget calculations have been found by the Troika to be twice as big as Samaras has claimed. Here is little doubt that in Greece the furor against the Troika will reach new heights. Not Samaras is guilty - no, the Troika is guilty: for having made known the cheat.

Meanwhile Portugal has announced to abandon its strict economical consolidation policy due to pressure from the street. Bill goes to Germany, Finland, Austria, Holland once again.

And the ECB wants to lever the bailout guarantee by a factor of four, then reaching beyond 2 trillion. Who is to guarantee for the risks and will need to pay (because the guarantee case will become true sooner or later)?= Well, you can figure.

The thimbleriggers march in the streets again, and madness dances inside the houses.

Here we go again.....

Time to kick Greece out!

Saw this comming, as we all did they just keep on lying!

[Kloef]

I agree, Germany is still considered less favourable for immigrant because of the past.

Although many Europeans have left the past to rest there are still some pretty strong feelings, especially in countries like Greece and Poland.

But i think the role and importance of that is overestimated. Germany also has alot to offer for alot of people and they would willingly put their difference aside if they can trade it with a decent future, that's just human nature.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Kloef

Europe should kick Greece out so we can look at the concequences for the others that need to be kicked out..good riddance.

And as far as Greece goes, what Skybird says..because i will have to pay contribution for the rest of my life while they sit back and hold their hand up

Stuff it up your dyke ok.

[Catfish]

Germany and France vow to strengthen lies


Sorry, i seem to have read that wrong .. but then, have i ?

[Skybird]

France vows to strengthen German transfers.

France is a patient itself already.

Ah, and British budget deficits exceed 7% of national GDP. A new record over there. It seems switching on the money printers so far did not work, eh? But there is a globalized effect nevertheless. Flooding the market always has a devaluation effect. Thing sin strong supply and low demand are cheap, things in low supply and high demand are precious. British bonds currently are not one of the latter.

Maybe the Fed has more success with trying more of what it already has tried since years: printing money.

It's astounding - time is fleeting,
madness takes it's toll!

[Jimbuna]

Just print more money (Euros) and hang the consequences.....France and Germany will pick up the slack eventually...they're good at that

[Gerald]

I am glad not to have €.

[Jimbuna]

Well not being a British national the chances are you probably would.

Good luck when it becomes worthless.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Just print more money (Euros) and hang the consequences.....France and Germany will pick up the slack eventually...they're good at that

Recently looked at France's budget numbers, debt and state of economy industry? Cars? They are more dead than alive themselves.

Debts are 90% of GDP. The state's spendings are the second-highest in the Eurozone. Car industry is in serious trouble, hidden bailout programs payed to them did not ignite. Economy is in a recession. Since years it has been policy of French governments to demand more German "solidarity" - meaning that Germany should pay more money for them. I tell you, with a friend like this, you do not need enemies anymore. I used to believe in this thing called German-French friendship until some time ago. But since years I realised that it is just an act, a fake, a strawman'S argument. It may be true on private contact levels between people, yes. But on the economic and financial and political levels - a lie.

Germany has no friends in Europe,m tnhat simple it is. For Germans that is a hard thing to swallow, since they were used to pay for friendship after WWII and in return being liked and loved by everybody. What the others loved and liked, was not the Germaness in Germany, but the money. And that is the tough pill to swallow - Our politicians completely fail in realising this. But we can see it since years: where we oppose paying even more for others, the others turn hostile, mock us, attack us, offend us.

Germany is an infinite money cheat, many think. A card blanche for spending. A mailbox where to store bills.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Recently looked at France's budget numbers, debt and state of economy industry? Cars? They are more dead than alive themselves.

Debts are 90% of GDP. The state's spendings are the second-highest in the Eurozone. Car industry is in serious trouble, hidden bailout programs payed to them did not ignite. Economy is in a recession. Since years it has been policy of French governments to demand more German "solidarity" - meaning that Germany should pay more money for them. I tell you, with a friend like this, you do not need enemies anymore. I used to believe in this thing called German-French friendship until some time ago. But since years I realised that it is just an act, a fake, a strawman'S argument. It may be true on private contact levels between people, yes. But on the economic and financial and political levels - a lie.

Germany has no friends in Europe,m tnhat simple it is. For Germans that is a hard thing to swallow, since they were used to pay for friendship after WWII and in return being liked and loved by everybody. What the others loved and liked, was not the Germaness in Germany, but the money. And that is the tough pill to swallow - Our politicians completely fail in realising this. But we can see it since years: where we oppose paying even more for others, the others turn hostile, mock us, attack us, offend us.

Germany is an infinite money cheat, many think. A card blanche for spending. A mailbox where to store bills.

I certainly agree with you where France is concerned...all the warning signs are there and when they go 'pop' everyone will act as if it's a big suprise.

They will eventually pay a high price for trying to be one of the big players in Europe.