Crash dive randomization ...

CaliEs · 09-10-12, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubini

This reduces the normal crash dive routine only to a propability of 30% chance. Then a trouble crash dive with dive or engine problems at 60% with variable delay in time to dive and finally at 10% that a crash dive could be not possible at all and just a messy and slow dive routine could be done.

I doubt that the "30%", "60%" "10%" reflects the real life crash diving behaviour. Crash diving was a livesaving, essential task and therefore always on the crew's mind when the boat was surfaced.
I would sugggest 80 16 4 or something similar.

sublynx · 09-10-12, 11:08 AM

This is a U-boat's crash dive procedure:

1. An electric bell gives the alarm.
2. The bridge watch prepares the bridge (close voice tube, demount portable machine guns, remove water-tight binoculars from UZO, remove radar detector aerial if necessary, etc.).
3. Simultaneously, vent valves for ballast tanks 5, 2/4, Quick diving tank (if empty) and 3 are opened in that order flooding from bow to stern to overcome the natural stern heaviness of the boat. If fuel is in ballast tanks 2 and 4, the main vent valve is opened with the inner vent valve remaining closed to equalize pressure in the ducts.
4. Simultaneously, the Petty Officer of the Watch goes below to his action station at the forward hydroplanes; the port quarter look-out follows to his action station in the conning tower with the Commanding Officer. The starboard quarter look-out goes below to the after hydroplanes. The Officer of the Watch is the last to go below. It is his duty to close the conning tower hatch. He then goes to his action station in the Control Room.
5. Simultaneously, close Supply and Exhaust air ventilation valves and any other openings in the pressure hull.
6. Planesmen position fore plane down and stern plane up. If it is a crash dive personnel not on watch might be ordered to move to the forward torpedo room to help get the bow under water. Initial angle of dive 4-7° to avoid propellers "racing".
7. Simultaneously, engine room personnel shut down and unclutch Diesel engines and shut the external air intake and exhaust valves.
8. Simultaneously, electric motor room personnel start electric motors
9. When the desired down angle is achieved (normally 12-15° but can go as high as 30 ° in a crash dive - at more than 40° acid may leak from battery cells) vent valve for ballast tank 1 is opened.
10. Simultaneously, the planes are brought to neutral position. Shut off Papenburg depth gauge at 18 meters and Precision depth gauge passing 20 meters.
11. Quick diving tank is blown just short of empty to avoid releasing bubbles. This should result in the boat being at slightly positive buoyancy because the Regulating/Compensating tank is adjusted and maintained to achieve that.
12. Once tanks are flooded, the valves are shut
13. When desired depth is approached forward dive planes were moved up and stern down to level the boat at desired depth.
14. Boat is maintained at depth dynamically by use of the dive planes.
15. Because air in the regulating tanks compressed with increasing depth the boat would grow heavier and the ballast pump or compressed air would be used to keep the boat at slightly positive buoyancy the opposite would occur if the boat moved to a shallower depth and water would be taken in.

There' a lot can go wrong in a procedure this complicated. The seamen in a U-boat are also tired and stressed, their close ones might have just died in the Eastern Front or in the bombings of German cities and most of the seamen are recruits, not professional soldiers with years of practice behind them.

However I agree with CaliEs that the failure percentage could be smaller. Playing the game might get too difficult with the values now planned. I hope that the values can be changed easily to match each player's preferred difficulty level.

Rubini · 09-10-12, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliEs

I doubt that the "30%", "60%" "10%" reflects the real life crash diving behaviour. Crash diving was a livesaving, essential task and therefore always on the crew's mind when the boat was surfaced.
I would sugggest 80 16 4 or something similar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublynx

There' a lot can go wrong in a procedure this complicated. The seamen in a U-boat are also tired and stressed, their close ones might have just died in the Eastern Front or in the bombings of German cities and most of the seamen are recruits, not professional soldiers with years of practice behind them.

However I agree with CaliEs that the failure percentage could be smaller. Playing the game might get too difficult with the values now planned. I hope that the values can be changed easily to match each player's preferred difficulty level.

Hi mates,

Thanks by yours comments and suggestions.

As I said one post above I´m playing the game with all these things together (also with last Hsie&Stiebler fix) and I can say that the result is very good!

IMHO, the main problem in stock crash dive time is that it is exactly the same all the time. In real life we can guess for sure that it was not. Even the different sea states probably make it be different for each time, just imagine now with all the above procedures described by sublynx ...

The Crash dive randomization (as it is now) just abort completely the crash dive by 10%, the others 90% is just a normal crash dive with different times to acomplish it. In the game that I´m playing now, it is setted to vary from 0 sec (normal) to more 40 sec. It´s in truth a very small difference: probably in real life the difference was much major if just one of the above procedure had only a small delay.

So, I agree that a very big differences in CD could be not the best option, but as it is now on CD randomization it is far from this.

I intend to make the CD randomization adjustable by users, it´s relatively simple to implement this on the code....Then probably you will finish with yet more agressive times than the ones that i´m playing now ... just for challenge purposes!

sublynx · 09-11-12, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubini

Then probably you will finish with yet more agressive times than the ones that i´m playing now ... just for challenge purposes!

True,that is very likely to happen. You seem to know well how we SH3 gamers think

andqui · 09-15-12, 02:49 PM

Have you had the chance to test it out more- is the code working as intended? And do you have any more information on changing the sensors? I've gone and reduced the maxheight of the visual sensor to 5, which seems to work ok- but when leaving port, with constant planes buzzing around, I only "spotted" one of them with the periscope sensor, out of the maybe 5 flying around lorient. Does this sound correct- to me, it seems as if I'd only see maybe 1/5 planes around, which seems a bit extreme. What is the detection like on your end?

thanks

Rubini · 09-15-12, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andqui

Have you had the chance to test it out more- is the code working as intended? And do you have any more information on changing the sensors? I've gone and reduced the maxheight of the visual sensor to 5, which seems to work ok- but when leaving port, with constant planes buzzing around, I only "spotted" one of them with the periscope sensor, out of the maybe 5 flying around lorient. Does this sound correct- to me, it seems as if I'd only see maybe 1/5 planes around, which seems a bit extreme. What is the detection like on your end?

thanks

The suggested fix is working as intend at my end. Obviously you will only detect airplanes by visual (crew) at 6000m max (the default periscope visual sensor max dist setting) if using this fix. I don´t know if any supermod have changed this max dist, could be a good idea to check your sensors.dat. Anyway, even for 6000m, using 16km environment, will be much more restrictive for detect planes, but this is exactly the idea! Isn´t important, IMHO, to detect axis planes at harbours or even allied ones if any. The game is out there on the open ocean at first, do you not agree?

andqui · 09-15-12, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubini

The suggested fix is working as intend at my end. Obviously you will only detect airplanes by visual (crew) at 6000m max (the default periscope visual sensor max dist setting) if using this fix. I don´t know if any supermod have changed this max dist, could be a good idea to check your sensors.dat. Anyway, even for 6000m, using 16km environment, will be much more restrictive for detect planes, but this is exactly the idea! Isn´t important, IMHO, to detect axis planes at harbours or even allied ones if any. The game is out there on the open ocean at first, do you not agree?

Yes, I agree. I just would think that the mechanics would be the same, harbor or not. I haven't had time to start a patrol and take it out into the ocean to check, so that's the only reason I was asking. If it works, it's fine by me. And 6 km sounds pretty reasonable. Will the extended crash-dive times be released sometime soon?

thanks for the hard work

Rubini · 09-15-12, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andqui

Yes, I agree. I just would think that the mechanics would be the same, harbor or not. I haven't had time to start a patrol and take it out into the ocean to check, so that's the only reason I was asking. If it works, it's fine by me. And 6 km sounds pretty reasonable. Will the extended crash-dive times be released sometime soon?

thanks for the hard work

And I just tested it at open ocean, so if you have more comments/observations on harbour side please let me know.

Don´t forget to also check your sensors.dat periscope visual sensor max distance to we accumulate info on the matter, it will be useful.

The crash dive randomization is ready as i already said, i´m just finning tunning. Yesterday I lose alll my self modded sh3 by clicking on JSGME wrong button - that one that disable all mods...a bit tired, late night...and...GOD! How were the 60 mods last 3 years install ordem? I had not a recent snap shot of my mod ordem install!!

Well, seems that now i have it working again. JScones, JSGME author, really needs to put that button away or make it generate a instant snap shot of the mod install before uninstall everything. A suggestion!

corvus · 09-15-12, 11:01 PM

Hi Rubini! Thanks for mods, I use some. I can offer a few ideas

Is it possible to increase the dive from the surface at hot keys * D * and * P * to 3-5 minutes? Minimum depth, which takes type 7 at crash dive was 40 meters. Dive in shallow waters require more time.

You can make the sound FuMB. This output from the shipboard internal sound system, like alarm. But I don"t know how it sounded.

My English is bad. Do all clear?

09-10-12, 11:08 AM	#2
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	This is a U-boat's crash dive procedure: 1. An electric bell gives the alarm. 2. The bridge watch prepares the bridge (close voice tube, demount portable machine guns, remove water-tight binoculars from UZO, remove radar detector aerial if necessary, etc.). 3. Simultaneously, vent valves for ballast tanks 5, 2/4, Quick diving tank (if empty) and 3 are opened in that order flooding from bow to stern to overcome the natural stern heaviness of the boat. If fuel is in ballast tanks 2 and 4, the main vent valve is opened with the inner vent valve remaining closed to equalize pressure in the ducts. 4. Simultaneously, the Petty Officer of the Watch goes below to his action station at the forward hydroplanes; the port quarter look-out follows to his action station in the conning tower with the Commanding Officer. The starboard quarter look-out goes below to the after hydroplanes. The Officer of the Watch is the last to go below. It is his duty to close the conning tower hatch. He then goes to his action station in the Control Room. 5. Simultaneously, close Supply and Exhaust air ventilation valves and any other openings in the pressure hull. 6. Planesmen position fore plane down and stern plane up. If it is a crash dive personnel not on watch might be ordered to move to the forward torpedo room to help get the bow under water. Initial angle of dive 4-7° to avoid propellers "racing". 7. Simultaneously, engine room personnel shut down and unclutch Diesel engines and shut the external air intake and exhaust valves. 8. Simultaneously, electric motor room personnel start electric motors 9. When the desired down angle is achieved (normally 12-15° but can go as high as 30 ° in a crash dive - at more than 40° acid may leak from battery cells) vent valve for ballast tank 1 is opened. 10. Simultaneously, the planes are brought to neutral position. Shut off Papenburg depth gauge at 18 meters and Precision depth gauge passing 20 meters. 11. Quick diving tank is blown just short of empty to avoid releasing bubbles. This should result in the boat being at slightly positive buoyancy because the Regulating/Compensating tank is adjusted and maintained to achieve that. 12. Once tanks are flooded, the valves are shut 13. When desired depth is approached forward dive planes were moved up and stern down to level the boat at desired depth. 14. Boat is maintained at depth dynamically by use of the dive planes. 15. Because air in the regulating tanks compressed with increasing depth the boat would grow heavier and the ballast pump or compressed air would be used to keep the boat at slightly positive buoyancy the opposite would occur if the boat moved to a shallower depth and water would be taken in. There' a lot can go wrong in a procedure this complicated. The seamen in a U-boat are also tired and stressed, their close ones might have just died in the Eastern Front or in the bombings of German cities and most of the seamen are recruits, not professional soldiers with years of practice behind them. However I agree with CaliEs that the failure percentage could be smaller. Playing the game might get too difficult with the values now planned. I hope that the values can be changed easily to match each player's preferred difficulty level. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS Last edited by sublynx; 09-10-12 at 11:09 AM. Reason: typo

09-15-12, 02:49 PM	#5
andqui Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 149 Downloads: 195 Uploads: 0	Have you had the chance to test it out more- is the code working as intended? And do you have any more information on changing the sensors? I've gone and reduced the maxheight of the visual sensor to 5, which seems to work ok- but when leaving port, with constant planes buzzing around, I only "spotted" one of them with the periscope sensor, out of the maybe 5 flying around lorient. Does this sound correct- to me, it seems as if I'd only see maybe 1/5 planes around, which seems a bit extreme. What is the detection like on your end? thanks

09-15-12, 11:01 PM	#9
corvus Nub Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Hi Rubini! Thanks for mods, I use some. I can offer a few ideas Is it possible to increase the dive from the surface at hot keys * D * and * P * to 3-5 minutes? Minimum depth, which takes type 7 at crash dive was 40 meters. Dive in shallow waters require more time. You can make the sound FuMB. This output from the shipboard internal sound system, like alarm. But I don"t know how it sounded. My English is bad. Do all clear?