German court bans circumcision

MH · 06-28-12, 05:58 AM

I just wonder what are the statistical complications due to piercing or tattooing.

joegrundman · 06-28-12, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

I just wonder what are the statistical complications due to piercing or tattooing.

also a different issue!

MH · 06-28-12, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

also a different issue!

No it is not....it is about underling motivations of such laws.
I suspect it is outcome of inability of EU to deal with their problems directly or calling things by their true names.

So they sell this bull...

Rockstar · 06-28-12, 06:25 AM

OK, the issue at hand is circumcision. It is a medical procedure routinely done at birth and a procedure done on the 8th day according to the law of Moses. Whats the big deal?

I was circumcised at my parents request, Im perfectly fine. What the heck is your issue with it? Mind your own business, leave me and my parents out of your holier than thou hypocritical self righteousness rants.

If by chance a procedure has gone wrong whether it was performed by a doctor or rabbi then investigate that case and that case alone. Dont lump it and me with my parents decision in with your assinine arguements.

Jerks

Herr-Berbunch · 06-28-12, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I was circumcised at my parents request, Im perfectly fine.

Jerks

As are most people, but at the age of 18, 21, 30, 40 would you choose to have it done if not for a purely medical reason?

Nice sign off, by the way.

Skybird · 06-28-12, 06:44 AM

Herr Berbunch, that is exactly the point that I often have on my mind when being confronted with some religious claim or practice that is aimed at the young, weak, defenceless ones: children. Would people will to do when they are grown-up adults what they have been forced to do while they were little kids? And mind you, mutilation is a one-way street only, there is no reversing possible.

For relgious reasons, children are not left a later choice. rElious mitives denies them the right to make a free choice later, when theya are grown up and adult enough to actually form opinion by themselves and make decisions by their own. If people want to snibble thewir gentials when they are adults, I cannot care less. When people do that to helpless children that simply get forced, I have a problem with it. Like I have with raping children or beating up children or letting starve children as well.

Parents are responsible for their children. That does not mean they own them, or that they are their possessions. Parents are not owners, they are somebody with a duty to care for somebody else until that somebody can take care for himself by his own means.

MH · 06-28-12, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Parents are responsible for their children. That does not mean they own them, or that they are their possessions. Parents are not owners, they are somebody with a duty to care for somebody else until that somebody can take care for himself by his own means.

here we go..so who's possession are they...yours....the state's...the politicians'?

antikristuseke · 06-28-12, 07:12 AM

No-ones, they are the wards of their parents and in some bad cases wards of the state.

joegrundman · 06-28-12, 06:46 AM

this law is not going to stand. Seriously, anyone here thinks that Germany is going to let a law stand that outlaws jewish practice?

think again. No matter how silly the practice is on the face of it.

It will be dropped, and soon.

Rockstar · 06-28-12, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

As are most people, but at the age of 18, 21, 30, 40 would you choose to have it done if not for a purely medical reason?

Nice sign off, by the way.

Its something that doesnt concern me really as the procedure has been done already. I have no animosity towards my parents or for their descion concerning my well being when I was a child. They didnt take anything from me that I want back. But frankly knowing what I know and where my faith lay, yes my desire would be for circumcision if I wasnt already.

As I said I personally have no resentment for the decsion my parents made. What I find odd and irks me a bit is that there are some nosey busy bodies here that do.

Skybird · 06-28-12, 08:21 AM

By that logic of yours - the deed is done, so get over it - you can screw all law enforcement. The crime is done, so why the noise?

It is not about you and your past. It is about those children today and the freedom to choose that now or in the future gets taken away from them - or is bein g left to them so that thy can choose by their own decision when they are grown up.

Why I care? For the same reason why i care when children in my neighbourhood would get beaten up by parents, or would get hurt by their parents, of would get abused.

If you do not understand that, you would just illustrate the kind of egoist desinterest that is so very much modern today and that time and again gets brought to new heights if this kind of coldhearted desinterest is founded on religious rules and thoughts. Nothing beats the the inhumanity and mercilessness that religion shows when it comes to enforcing its morals on people. "The maximum of possible cruelty is still not enoiugh for the enemies of my God". "Whatever hit you in suffering and pain, it serves oyu right for you do not follow the will of my God." "You do not believe in my God, so we pull you into the light of the purifying fire."

I do not care much for babies getting baptised, it is just water and a ritual that causes nothing, done in a round of adults who still got stuck in the superstitiuon of even pre-medieval eras. I got baptised, too, but who cares? There is no watermark on my forehead, nor is anyone in the family caring for such magical stauff anymore - I made them all turning their back on the church.

But circumcision is somethign else, here damage gets done, physcial injury that is irreversible. That is what separates a superstitious but harmless watershow that takes itself way too serious but beyond that does not cause effect, from a crime. And a crime is what it is when you physically or mentally abuse or violate children, pupills (=Schutzbefohlene).

IMO it just adds another argument against religions that there is no moral outcry amongst them over this kind of abuse. If the same thing would be done to children without referring the deed to a religious cult, law enforcement immediately would get engaged and prosecute the parents and the person carrying out the deed.

Sailor Steve · 06-28-12, 08:31 AM

I always thought the reason for hospitals doing it was medical, not religious, and I'm not sure how much damage is really done. It looks to me like a bit of overreaction, I don't have a real opinion one way or another on this yet, so that's all I'm going to say.

MH · 06-28-12, 08:34 AM

Quote:

By that logic of yours - the deed is done, so get over it - you can screw all law enforcement. The crime is done, so why the noise?

It is not about you and your past. It is about those children today and the freedom to choose that now or in the future gets taken away from them - or is bein g left to them so that thy can choose by their own decision when they are grown up.

Why I care? For the same reason why i care when children in my neighbourhood would get beaten up by parents, or would get hurt by their parents, of would get abused.

Now that is so dramatic and graphic another foreskin man comes to our rescue....

06-28-12, 06:44 AM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,707 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Herr Berbunch, that is exactly the point that I often have on my mind when being confronted with some religious claim or practice that is aimed at the young, weak, defenceless ones: children. Would people will to do when they are grown-up adults what they have been forced to do while they were little kids? And mind you, mutilation is a one-way street only, there is no reversing possible. For relgious reasons, children are not left a later choice. rElious mitives denies them the right to make a free choice later, when theya are grown up and adult enough to actually form opinion by themselves and make decisions by their own. If people want to snibble thewir gentials when they are adults, I cannot care less. When people do that to helpless children that simply get forced, I have a problem with it. Like I have with raping children or beating up children or letting starve children as well. Parents are responsible for their children. That does not mean they own them, or that they are their possessions. Parents are not owners, they are somebody with a duty to care for somebody else until that somebody can take care for himself by his own means. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-28-12, 06:46 AM	#9
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	this law is not going to stand. Seriously, anyone here thinks that Germany is going to let a law stand that outlaws jewish practice? think again. No matter how silly the practice is on the face of it. It will be dropped, and soon. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

06-28-12, 08:21 AM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,707 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	By that logic of yours - the deed is done, so get over it - you can screw all law enforcement. The crime is done, so why the noise? It is not about you and your past. It is about those children today and the freedom to choose that now or in the future gets taken away from them - or is bein g left to them so that thy can choose by their own decision when they are grown up. Why I care? For the same reason why i care when children in my neighbourhood would get beaten up by parents, or would get hurt by their parents, of would get abused. If you do not understand that, you would just illustrate the kind of egoist desinterest that is so very much modern today and that time and again gets brought to new heights if this kind of coldhearted desinterest is founded on religious rules and thoughts. Nothing beats the the inhumanity and mercilessness that religion shows when it comes to enforcing its morals on people. "The maximum of possible cruelty is still not enoiugh for the enemies of my God". "Whatever hit you in suffering and pain, it serves oyu right for you do not follow the will of my God." "You do not believe in my God, so we pull you into the light of the purifying fire." I do not care much for babies getting baptised, it is just water and a ritual that causes nothing, done in a round of adults who still got stuck in the superstitiuon of even pre-medieval eras. I got baptised, too, but who cares? There is no watermark on my forehead, nor is anyone in the family caring for such magical stauff anymore - I made them all turning their back on the church. But circumcision is somethign else, here damage gets done, physcial injury that is irreversible. That is what separates a superstitious but harmless watershow that takes itself way too serious but beyond that does not cause effect, from a crime. And a crime is what it is when you physically or mentally abuse or violate children, pupills (=Schutzbefohlene). IMO it just adds another argument against religions that there is no moral outcry amongst them over this kind of abuse. If the same thing would be done to children without referring the deed to a religious cult, law enforcement immediately would get engaged and prosecute the parents and the person carrying out the deed. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-28-12, 08:31 AM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I always thought the reason for hospitals doing it was medical, not religious, and I'm not sure how much damage is really done. It looks to me like a bit of overreaction, I don't have a real opinion one way or another on this yet, so that's all I'm going to say. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

06-28-12, 05:58 AM	#1
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	I just wonder what are the statistical complications due to piercing or tattooing.

06-28-12, 06:25 AM	#4
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	OK, the issue at hand is circumcision. It is a medical procedure routinely done at birth and a procedure done on the 8th day according to the law of Moses. Whats the big deal? I was circumcised at my parents request, Im perfectly fine. What the heck is your issue with it? Mind your own business, leave me and my parents out of your holier than thou hypocritical self righteousness rants. If by chance a procedure has gone wrong whether it was performed by a doctor or rabbi then investigate that case and that case alone. Dont lump it and me with my parents decision in with your assinine arguements. Jerks

06-28-12, 07:12 AM	#8
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	No-ones, they are the wards of their parents and in some bad cases wards of the state.