Property Rights vs 2A Rights....

[razark]

There's no option for "Yes, I would respect the owner's wishes and not carry on his property"?

Without knowing the specific paragraphs in the US laws, I am certain of one thing: that private owners of property have the right to rule that private persons with arms are not allowed to enter that private property.

How can someone say they are certain like that
Terms and conditions apply just like thay always do, in this case the "private property" is open to the public so it introduces a whole library of "yes but" and "no unless" conditions.

Private property is guaranteed in the US not one bit less than in Germany. If you come and pay a visit to me, and you were armed, and I do not want you running around on my property with a weapon on your belt, I have the right to deny you access.

You sound like that hotel owner who got sued because he refused to have a couple of poofs on his property

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by razark

There's no option for "Yes, I would respect the owner's wishes and not carry on his property"?

This.

Interesting topic. The last lab I worked in, 3/4 of my co-workers had concealed carry permits (don't mess w/ our lab). Technically, the rule was no guns at work, so I don't know what they did.
At Oregon St U, they were trying to arrest people who carried, but legally they can't do that, because OR law says you can carry and they have no legal right to make up their own law. There was a big fight about this last year.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by razark

There's no option for "Yes, I would respect the owner's wishes and not carry on his property"?

That's my vote, if I carried. I don't see a routine crime problem so I do not carry.

[nikimcbee]

I've thought about getting a permit, but it seems like to much of a legal hassel IMO. I almost got one when I lived in Eugene (ore-gone), because our neighbors had been broken into twice. And they have a crime problem with meth-heads.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I've thought about getting a permit, but it seems like to much of a legal hassel IMO. I almost got one when I lived in Eugene (ore-gone), because our neighbors had been broken into twice. And they have a crime problem with meth-heads.

But they've been fine since you've moved away...

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

But they've been fine since you've moved away...

They are all in jail.

[Morts]

If its private property, wouldnt the owner(s) be able to dictate whether or not you can carry a weapon there ?

[August]

Originally Posted by Morts

If its private property, wouldnt the owner(s) be able to dictate whether or not you can carry a weapon there ?

I would have thought so as well but apparently not although i'll bet the laws on this vary quite a bit from state to state.

[Platapus]

In Virginia (both North and South), you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon, even with a permit, into or onto private property where the owner has posted that weapons are not allowed.

Code of Virginia 18.2-308 (O)

The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

As always, different states have different laws.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

[...]like that hotel owner who got sued because he refused to have a couple of poofs on his property

Are you referring to the case in Germany, where the hotel owner got sued because he refused to accomidate members of a Nazi party? This guy won the lawsuit against the NPD as he didn't discriminate them on gender, race, religion, etc., but refered to his right to do business with anyone he wants and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Platapus

In Virginia (both North and South), you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon, even with a permit, into or onto private property where the owner has posted that weapons are not allowed.

Code of Virginia 18.2-308 (O)

I took the time to check out the text (I hate "Law English"!) and noticed that it seems to include businesses open to the public, it states it excepts the business owner (B.1), however nothing is said that customers are an exception.
This would also be my argument why stores can refuse to serve people with CCWs: the rights of the business owner. In the US you sometimes can see signs stating: "We chose the right to refuse service", afaik they are still legal as long as the stores don't refuse the service because of the reasons stated in the 14th Amendment, which are clearly defined.
So in reverse, discrimination based on clothes ("no shirt no service", tie rules in restaurants, "appropriate" clothes in clubs) or guns seems to be legal. Everything else would go against the freedom of enterprise the store owner has, the freedom to do business with who they want.

Some odd observations about § 18.2-308:
- you still are allowed to carry a crossbow
- The Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell seems to have special privileges in comparision to his fellow Harbor Masters (C.6) - maybe he made a generous donation (or I don't get his special role, in this case the laugh's on me )

[andy_311]

Your not allowed to carry a firearm period in the UK.

[mookiemookie]

Ok so educate me here....

Let's say I have a CHP and I'm carrying it, concealed, of course. Now I walk into my office building here, where there's a big "NO WEAPONS BEYOND THIS POINT" sign right on the door. Are you saying that sign is full of BS? I thought if it was private property they could do as they pleased?

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Are you saying that sign is full of BS? I thought if it was private property they could do as they pleased?

Since when can anyone "do as they please" on private property? Private property use is regulated through the nose in this country. Especially commercial property.

In the scenario above, the sign is a company directive and usually does not hold the force of law. Now you are talking about employer/employee contract law regarding the 2nd Amendment, which is an issue still being bandied about in the courts today.

Very different than Joe Six-pack walking into Bob's Ace Hardware to buy a new drill, and Bob whipping out his gat and busting a cap in Joe's butt.

In your scenario, it would depend on quite a few factors. Some states allow the restriction of concealed carry, by employees, in the workplace. Some do not. Federal government contractors, and some others, can set up firearm free zones under federal regulation. In such cases, it is a violation of federal law.

In any case, the company has a right to develop the policy, post the sign, and fire your butt for violating it.

Most court battles regarding this subject today concern employee rights to have a weapon locked away in their private vehicle in the company parking lots. It is looking like the precedents being set are in favor of the employee while outside the doors of the facility, while, correctly in my opinion, preserving the right of the employer to terminate employment if the weapon is brought inside in violation of company policy.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Osmium Steele

Since when can anyone "do as they please" on private property? Private property use is regulated through the nose in this country. Especially commercial property.

Allow me to rephrase - "I thought if it was private property they could do as they pleased in regards to allowing or banning firearms?"

And I found this regarding Texas....no concealed carry in a bar, school, sporting event, church, hospital or where the sign is posted that says no firearms allowed.