Unnarmed 17 year old shot dead "in self defence"

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by August

A 6.2 foot tall athlete doesn't anything to beat another man to death but his hands, which is exactly what the evidence released so far says Martin was attempting to do. A punch in the nose is one thing but sitting on top of another person and beating his head into concrete is attempting to kill or seriously injure them.

It's also not a way of disarming a person with a gun since with his hands on Zimmermans head he is not stopping him from drawing and shooting.

If you've been to a high school recently or observed how high school kids fight you'll notice a similarity as one is mostly on top of the other beating him on the ground.

But I wasn't referring to the struggle itself, the fact is that he was chasing someone who he thought to be a gangsta criminal but ends up with a dead kid that carried a package of skittles and a can of Ice tea.

A lot of questions remain unclear on what happened exactly and who is to blame for it. I really don't care much of the whole case and my perspective of it that both may have a share of the blame, how exactly I don't know and perhaps we'll find out when the case is resolved. The only thing I didn't agree with is how the Police handled it, a bit too passive imo.

HunterICX

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Good point Yubba.

No, it's not a good point at all. Jason, I thought you had more objectivity than that.

Yubba, again you are absolutely convince of your own take on this. You may be right, but you refuse to see that you may not. So you have a lot of crime. That doesn't mean that everyone you see is a criminal.

So if you look like a thug act like a thug

Wearing a hoodie is a capital crime? When did he act like a thug? Zimmerman says Martin jumped him. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. We only have the survivor's word on that.

My point is that none of knows what happened. You are saying that others are condemnin Zimmerman without knowing what happened, yet you say you know exactly what happened and Martin got what he deserved. Again, maybe you're right. My complaint is that you only post as if you know you're right, and you don't.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by yubba

So why did Z follow M , because he was protecting his neigborhood and was doing what he thought was right, M would be still be alive if he had either ran for it and went home or respectively ask Z what was up, and told Z who he was and where he was going.

If some dude starts following me and when I try to ditch him he keeps pursuing me the LAST thing I'm about to do is "respectively" ask him what was up.

It was not Z's job to follow anybody to protect his neighborhood. It was Z's job to report, which he did.
His job was done right at that point.

[themrwho]

admittedly I didn't read the whole thread here and I was not even following the case recently in the media, however from my POV basics are clear from day 1 and having just read the last 5 comments here; I can't believe some of us can justify a killing because of "thug-like looks" and other pathetic 'causes' such as "he did not respectfully ask what's up?".

bottom line is, this guy killed a person in cold blood and if he gets away with it, that'll be only because of victim's skin colour, in the year 2012.

so sad.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by yubba

And if this makes it to trial a good defence lawyer is going to show how much of a little thug Trayvon really was, how crappy his parents were, and how messed up the black community really is. You know what, your right, I am assume-ing that he was, because I see too much of this crap, stop the crime and stop imbrace-ing the gangster lifesyle.

None of which makes a damn bit of difference to the facts at hand. None. Zero. Zippo. Zimmerman was justified in shooting a kid because that kid once got suspended from school because they found a bit of weed? That's a disgusting thought.

[MH]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

None of which makes a damn bit of difference to the facts at hand. None. Zero. Zippo. Zimmerman was justified in shooting a kid because that kid once got suspended from school because they found a bit of weed? That's a disgusting thought.

Since it is Z claims vs dead man case with some shady street law mixed in, it all end up with digging the dirt and establishing profile of people involved.
The background it seems will have decisive wight here.

[August]

Originally Posted by themrwho

bottom line is, this guy killed a person in cold blood and if he gets away with it, that'll be only because of victim's skin colour, in the year 2012.

That is pure unsupported speculation. I have read the whole thread and have kept up with the story in the news and as far as I can tell if Zimmerman is guilty it certainly wasn't in cold blood.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by MH

The background it seems will have decisive wight here.

I certainly hope not.
It would be sad if you could get a guilty verdict for 2nd degree murder based on some profiling of a person's character and no other evidence. Do not forget that Z has a history of domestic violence. If the dead's past is relevant, so is his.

Regardless, I cannot see a 2nd degree murder verdict in this case. A lesser charge like manslaughter perhaps, but a murder charge is a reach considering the lack of evidence and the burden to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Regardless, I cannot see a 2nd degree murder verdict in this case. A lesser charge like manslaughter perhaps, but a murder charge is a reach considering the lack of evidence and the burden to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Could it be said that the initial actions(or inaction) showed a failure on the part of the authorities in Florida and the apparent over reach in bringing the 2nd degree charge shows another failure on their part.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Could it be said that the initial actions(or inaction) showed a failure on the part of the authorities in Florida and the apparent over reach in bringing the 2nd degree charge shows another failure on their part.

I agree the 2nd degree murder is an overreach, some kind of 3rd degree manslaughter would be more prudent.

I am not familiar with Florida codes, so I can be wrong, but murder is usually intentional and malicious.

I do not see either here. But there is a crime (IMHO) Manslaughter 3 at the least. I do not think Zimmerman is a scumbag, who wanted to test out his sidearm.

The overreach on the prosecution (go Florida! Not the first time) will set this man free, and the blacks will throw a fit, thanks to racebaiters who jump onto this because they lack real jobs. (Right racebaiters Jesse and Al?)

[Platapus]

You can find the statutes here

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...EChapter%20782

[soopaman2]

Oh wow. While a great link provided a bit of fodder for comedy.

Are these guys serious?
782.081
(c)***8195;***8220;Simulated self-murder***8221; means the artistic depiction or portrayal of self-murder which is not an actual self-murder. The term includes, but is not limited to, an artistic depiction or portrayal of self-murder in a script, play, movie, or story presented to the public or during an event.

No movies folks. Move along, we do not need the money here.

Although I did find this, Ill just leave the link, it is long winded, but shows the "qualifications for murder"


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...s/0782.04.html

Florida...*sighs*

I see no murder, may even be a purposeful overreach to let him off, without inciting the blacks.
I honestly have little faith in Florida prosecutors.

[nikimcbee]

I stand by my post. I responded they way I did, because Portlandia just had it's forth mass-mob robbery. There was a large group of teenagers who flash mob stores and steal as much as they can in around 30 seconds and then run. When they showed the security cam footage one the news, guess how they were dressed. I empathize with Yubba's crime frustrations.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No, it's not a good point at all. Jason, I thought you had more objectivity than that.

Yubba, again you are absolutely convince of your own take on this. You may be right, but you refuse to see that you may not. So you have a lot of crime. That doesn't mean that everyone you see is a criminal.


Wearing a hoodie is a capital crime? When did he act like a thug? Zimmerman says Martin jumped him. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. We only have the survivor's word on that.

My point is that none of knows what happened. You are saying that others are condemnin Zimmerman without knowing what happened, yet you say you know exactly what happened and Martin got what he deserved. Again, maybe you're right. My complaint is that you only post as if you know you're right, and you don't.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I stand by my post. I responded they way I did, because Portlandia just had it's forth mass-mob robbery. There was a large group of teenagers who flash mob stores and steal as much as they can in around 30 seconds and then run. When they showed the security cam footage one the news, guess how they were dressed. I empathize with Yubba's crime frustrations.

So do I. My objection isn't to the idea that Martin may have been one of them, but to the automatic assumption that he was. Can you see the difference? Guilt by association is a terrible thing, and that applies equally to Martin and to Zimmerman.

So your town is suffering from robberies, and the robbers all dress a certain way. Does that mean that everyone who dresses that way is a robber? Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out? That's what you claim to be standing by.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

Regardless, I cannot see a 2nd degree murder verdict in this case. A lesser charge like manslaughter perhaps, but a murder charge is a reach considering the lack of evidence and the burden to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Murder 2 can be equated to "depraved indifference" in most areas - and that not only is an excellent description of the legal definition of murder 2 for the state of florida, its also a very good match to what the facts (as we know them) occured.

Edit - let me expound on that.

Zimmerman is going to try to use an "affirmative defense" in that he had the right to defend himself. If this were a random street attack that would work - however - he was fully knowledgeable that he was armed, he suspected that Martin was possibly on drugs and armed (per 911 tape) and thus his actions - by being armed and following a possible drugged and armed person - resulted in the altercation. The fact that he was armed and had - per his own words - reasonable suspicion that martin was a danger - shows he acted with depraved indifference to human life. How? His actions increased the likelhood of firearms discharge - either his own or the one he suspected Martin to have - which could have ended with an innocent bystander being killed. His actions created a higher risk of loss of life without good cause - thus depraved indifference. The fact that it was Martin who was killed vs someone else is irrelevant - had his shot gone awry and killed a non involved party - he would still be legally culpable under that charge.