Rogue Soldier kills Afghan civilians - Page 3

krashkart · 03-12-12, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

Now the Taliban want revenge for killing innocent civilians.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 03-12-12, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

Now the Taliban want revenge for killing innocent civilians.

Double standars rulez!

Rockstar · 03-12-12, 12:03 PM

Last I checked we had a constitution which guaranteed his rights against lynch mob rule. Hey if he is found guilty of murder then lead him out the gate into the hands of the victims relatives. But if there were other circumstance which lead to this then that needs to brought into the light as well. You know a fair trail. It doesn't mean we protect him and see that he gets any preferential treatment cause he's an Amerikun. We hold his feet to the fire in accordance with the laws of this land.

We sent him over there and asked him to do things We ourselves wouldn't or are afraid to do. It would be wrong of us to deny him the things we were told he was fighting for.

Skybird · 03-12-12, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Double standars rulez!

The case in Afghanistan is lost anyway, and it is not as if the whole region/culture/place in general is that much of a precious example of why we would want to flatter it at all. The Taliban committed crimes and acts of barbarism on a regular basis before the US went in, they do it right now, and they will do it even more once they have taken over the country again. Or take Iraq. In February alone, people obeying the cultural precious rule of that shiny place have tortured and slaughtered with stones 59, other sources say over 90 teens and young men who dressed and confessed to the youth style of being "Emos". In Iran they have sentenced to death a Muslim who has converted to Christian faith and became a pastor. And then there is Shariah law, don'T get me started on that one.

Kangoroo courts, somebody said, well, considering the barbaric basis of a culture and religion these places base on, and considering the high level of corruption in Afghanistan'S administration, and political interests lobbying in the background for a sentence they want, kangaroo courts are a label that probably is not that far off the truth.

All in all I agree with Rockstar here. If the guy is a sane but criminal thug, give him the whip (the murderer, not Rockstar I mean

). If he is a psyche that got broken by war, make him a subject to internal military rules and laws - and give him treatement as well, if that is possible at all. I had my experiences with traumatised people, and I know that traumatisation can lead beyond a point from where you simply can never return to normality again. Therapy is no magic, nor is it omnipotent.

eddie · 03-12-12, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Double standars rulez!

When I read the headline about the Taliban vowing revenge for this tragic event, I was stunned for a few moments! All I could think was "Are you serious?" How can you understand their logic with a statement like this-

"The American 'terrorists' want to come up with an excuse for the perpetrator of this inhumane crime by claiming that this immoral culprit was mentally ill," the Taliban statement added. "If the perpetrators of this massacre were in fact mentally ill then this testifies to yet another moral transgression by the American military, because they are arming lunatics in Afghanistan who turn their weapons against the defenseless Afghans without giving a second thought."

We are stuck in a war that is being fought in the middle of an insane asylem! I wonder if we can get these people back on their meds.

krashkart · 03-12-12, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

And then therfe is Shariah law, don'T get me started on that one.

We won't...

</troll>

I feel pretty strongly about it, too. It contradicts damn near everything that I was raised to believe about right and wrong. Probably par for the course for many of us. My solution in lieu of understanding is to not care so much. Better for my heart in the long run, I suppose.

TLAM Strike · 03-12-12, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

We are stuck in a war that is being fought in the middle of an insane asylem!

If M*A*S*H* taught us anything its that in war: insanity if the price of admission.

When you send a normal person in to a place where things that are so perversely against their ideals are the norm, their mind is sure to develop some kind of coping mechanism that will seem strange or down right wrong to those who have not experienced what they have.

krashkart · 03-12-12, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

When you send a normal person in to a place where things that are so perversely against their ideals are the norm, their mind is sure to develop some kind of coping mechanism that will seem strange or down right wrong to those who have not experienced what they have.

+1

I've heard this saying before: There are things nobody should have to see.

Stealhead · 03-12-12, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Last I checked we had a constitution which guaranteed his rights against lynch mob rule. Hey if he is found guilty of murder then lead him out the gate into the hands of the victims relatives. But if there were other circumstance which lead to this then that needs to brought into the light as well. You know a fair trail. It doesn't mean we protect him and see that he gets any preferential treatment cause he's an Amerikun. We hold his feet to the fire in accordance with the laws of this land.

We sent him over there and asked him to do things We ourselves wouldn't or are afraid to do. It would be wrong of us to deny him the things we were told he was fighting for.

Well I hate to tell you this but that does not always apply to people overseas in the US military over the years many military members that have committed serious crimes such as rape and murder have been handed over to the German or Japanese judicial system.When you are in another country their laws apply if you don't want to risk the the chance of being handed over to another judicial system then as a military member do not commit a crime regardless of your mental state.When serious crimes are committed by a military member they ask the that government if they want to take the person if they then they get him or her if they don't they get the UCMJ system but that may be worse because at least in Germany or Japan that means they want the death sentence if applicable which means they got saved if they went outside the UCMJ.I do not know if we have an agreement with Afghanistan anyway so the suspect has nothing to worry about there.

A US citizen is worse off than a military member they have no protection at all from if they commit a crime in another country they get punished and maybe if they are lucky the state department might step in have a sentence reduced or they might get exchanged for prisoner.

Oberon · 03-12-12, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krashkart

+1

I've heard this saying before: There are things nobody should have to see.

+2

War is hell. I'm glad I've never had to witness it for real...and for that I thank those that have done so on my behalf.

Bilge_Rat · 03-12-12, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Why would you assume that a foreign court would be a "Kangaroo Court"?

no particular reason...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...d-marry-rapist

http://www.bosnewslife.com/15541-det...-death-penalty

http://www.rai-see.org/news/world/21...n-charges.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ike-again.html

STEED · 03-12-12, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I should imagine President Karzai has already got his escape route/package worked out.

One way ticket to Eastbourne for the old folks home.

Ducimus · 03-12-12, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Turn him over to the Afghan legal system.

Ordinarly, im not a big advocate of that, but In this incident, I believe that is probably the best course of action for the US and all Forces there. Anything less then turning him over to the Afghan legal system will appear that we are in collusion, or otherwise protecting this individual. Which makes EVERYBODY look bad. We need to distance ourselves from him.

My thought is give him a Court Martial that will strip him of all rank, proclaim as part of his punishment, that he is to be turned over the the Afghan legal system (Delivery to be done with him in a Prisoner jumpsuit and NOT in ANY uniform), and after his sentencing from the Afghan courts (most assuirdly death), he be given a Dishonorable discharge.

eddie · 03-12-12, 04:59 PM

He is facing the death penalty if he is found sane, but according to a recent article about this, they said-

"According to military officials, the soldier will be tried within the military justice system, not turned over to Afghan authorities for trial, rebuffing a call from Afghan lawmakers to use their courts."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...-death-penalty

Rockstar · 03-12-12, 05:04 PM

Apparently they are going to bring him back for courts martial.

Afghanistan: Casualties of a Pre-Dawn Killing Spree - The Daily Beast

http://pulse.me/s/6UpXW

.

03-12-12, 04:59 PM	#44
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	He is facing the death penalty if he is found sane, but according to a recent article about this, they said- "According to military officials, the soldier will be tried within the military justice system, not turned over to Afghan authorities for trial, rebuffing a call from Afghan lawmakers to use their courts." http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...-death-penalty __________________ Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I'm kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me. Al Capone

03-12-12, 12:03 PM	#33
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Last I checked we had a constitution which guaranteed his rights against lynch mob rule. Hey if he is found guilty of murder then lead him out the gate into the hands of the victims relatives. But if there were other circumstance which lead to this then that needs to brought into the light as well. You know a fair trail. It doesn't mean we protect him and see that he gets any preferential treatment cause he's an Amerikun. We hold his feet to the fire in accordance with the laws of this land. We sent him over there and asked him to do things We ourselves wouldn't or are afraid to do. It would be wrong of us to deny him the things we were told he was fighting for.

03-12-12, 05:04 PM	#45
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Apparently they are going to bring him back for courts martial. Afghanistan: Casualties of a Pre-Dawn Killing Spree - The Daily Beast http://pulse.me/s/6UpXW .