The real issue at hand in the Limbaugh/Fluke controversy

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

But i'm not buying a chemical. I'm buying a little white oval pill that somebody says contains a certain amount of a chemical. Now I wouldn't care if it was laundry detergent but when it comes to health maintaining drugs I just like knowing who that somebody is.

You can always ask your doctor if you are concerned. If you still have questions, consult the PDR. If you are still concerned, you can pull the FDA report on the generic product. You can also contact the company that makes the generic product for information. If you are still concerned, I guess you can take one of the pills and pay for a lab to analyze it. I would not recommend that thought.

But seriously, ask your doctor.

But seriously, ask your doctor.

But what about buying in bulk on the internets instead of doing all that silly doctor pharmacist routine, I am surehe can find tablets with pfitzer on the box or tizer or piffer so its all good and reasuring

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
What? Has it come to this, someone's right to life depends on the govt taxing the rich?

I'm sure you didn't mean that the way it sounds, Mookie. I sure hope a guy like me can get by ok without assistance from the rich (however they are defined).

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Food and medicine wouldn't fall under right to life?

No, they do not. We disagree here. If you propose that food and medicine are an individual's rights to be provided by government, may as well through in shelter. And dramtatic as this statement sounds, we can start working on a new name for this country because that isn't American at all.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I find religious people to be morons usually, some are more intelligent than others but they certainly lack some intellect to believe in the fairy tale that is religion and I mean pretty much any religion.

I bet you're really popular at school.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

No, they do not. We disagree here. If you propose that food and medicine are an individual's rights to be provided by government, may as well through in shelter. And dramtatic as this statement sounds, we can start working on a new name for this country because that isn't American at all.

As I told Hap, I'm glad we live in a country where (for the most part) the poor aren't dying in the streets from sickness and hunger. Social Darwinism is brutal. It rewards those who take advantage of and exploit others. It necessarily places a lower value on some human life. It stratifies and divides society into caste systems. That's the antithesis of what America is to me. "All men are created equal."

If you want to get purely economical about it, having consumers die in the streets is bad for business. Better to keep them alive and spending.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

As I told Hap, I'm glad we live in a country where (for the most part) the poor aren't dying in the streets from sickness and hunger. Social Darwinism is brutal. It rewards those who take advantage of and exploit others. It necessarily places a lower value on some human life. It stratifies and divides society into caste systems. That's the antithesis of what America is to me. "All men are created equal."

If you want to get purely economical about it, having consumers die in the streets is bad for business. Better to keep them alive and spending.

I want to make it clear, I am not trying to argue with you for the sake of being contrary Yes, I am glad we are living in a country where the poor aren't dying in the streets, too. I would be even happier living in a country where people don't quit high school, form gangs, make rap music, and engage in organized crime. Unfortunately, people are free to choose those paths. I am glad we live in a country where (still) people are held accountable for their own choices.

We're a long way from Social Darwinism, and historically, America has been a country that provides opportunity and freedom, it does not guarantee food and medicine. I'm ok with people who want that to be a new part of the equation, but get used to being told that it is not American, because, historically, it is not.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

You're going to help the starving and those without any way of getting health insurance... by taking away their food stamps and Medicare. That's pants on head crazy.

So keeping programs that increase the number of poor is the right path? That's crazy too....

Its only crazy to close doors when you don't open others. I proposed the opposite. Your ignoring half the equation, and apparently doing it on purpose.

I have a friend who is part of Manna food bank. They provide food for a number of other charities, as well as direct to society. I asked him how many people he could feed if he got 10% of what is spent in foodstamp purchases in the area. Granted - we have no hard numbers - but his answer was quick and sure - 20% of the people getting foodstamps was what he could feed. That is with nutritious meals - not the crap that many snap recipients choose to purchase. Nothing the government does is efficient. Thus - it is wasteful.

When you can do more with less because its not government run, when you can do more with less because its done out of compassion and a desire to help, instead of compulsory by government, its foolish to not do so. Unless of course, you don't care about results......

Quite honestly - that is my biggest gripe with the left - results don't matter, only the "intent" when it comes to entitlements.

*edit - I also take exception to it being "their" foodstamps etc... They didn't pay for them - we of the working class did. It just shows how screwed up the thinking is - one person pays so another person can lay claim to something.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

You can always ask your doctor if you are concerned. If you still have questions, consult the PDR. If you are still concerned, you can pull the FDA report on the generic product. You can also contact the company that makes the generic product for information. If you are still concerned, I guess you can take one of the pills and pay for a lab to analyze it. I would not recommend that thought.

But seriously, ask your doctor.

I've already talked to her about it and she shares my concerns. The PDR and FDA report are immaterial to my point here. I know what the drug is supposed to do. That's not the issue.

My problem with generic drugs in general is the difficulty of maintaining quality controls on a drug being made by numerous, often obscure and unknown companies located God knows where.

My problem with generic drugs in general is the difficulty of maintaining quality controls on a drug being made by numerous, often obscure and unknown companies located God knows where.

Good point, what is needed is more rigorous government enforcement and more government regulation.
After all if a label says the company and the product have been identified and approved by the government then they had better not be an obscure unknown company from god knows where and the product had better be what it says it is.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

So keeping programs that increase the number of poor is the right path? That's crazy too....

Its only crazy to close doors when you don't open others. I proposed the opposite. Your ignoring half the equation, and apparently doing it on purpose

Nope. I already said that whether someone eats or not shouldn't depend on how generous another person feels that day.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I find religious people to be morons usually

Prominent figures in history were religious people. The everyday Joe is a religious person. There were the folks that believed in something greater than themselves including a country free to do as one wants. The same freedoms you enjoy today. Morons...

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Prominent figures in history were religious people. The everyday Joe is a religious person. There were the folks that believed in something greater than themselves including a country free to do as one wants. The same freedoms you enjoy today. Morons...

Morons indeed. I wish I could be a moron, too. But I'm too selfish.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Prominent figures in history were religious people. The everyday Joe is a religious person. There were the folks that believed in something greater than themselves including a country free to do as one wants. The same freedoms you enjoy today. Morons...

Indeed. Isaac Newton was religious. So was Johann Sebastian Bach. Louis Pateur, the Wright Brothers, astronaut Jim Irwin, George Washington and even Bubblehead's own beloved Ronald Reagan were all noted adherents to religion. This list of great and brilliant people who were also religious goes on and on.

[mookiemookie]

You guys and your pesky "facts" are getting in the way of Bubs' mission to offend every group of people on the planet.

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

This list of great and brilliant people who were also religious goes on and on.

It doesn't even have to be black&white "religious / not religious" mentality. Machiavelli, for example, was fairly critical towards Christianity and yet sited Moses as a kind of a great person needed to build a flourishing republic. To him the characters of the Bible likely were historical persons, much like he considered Lycurgus of Sparta such great person.

What a moron, huh?