[REL] Real Fleet Boat 2.0

[gi_dan2987]

Ahoy fellas, I'm in the middle of a patrol southwest of honshu in the yellow sea. My lookouts spot a Large merchant heading my way at about 20 degrees AOB. Perfect, periscope depth, battle stations. Ok so this is going to be a chip shot for some easy tonnage right? wrong. I take my series of range/bearing readings at the allotted 3 minute intervals to get average speed estimate and course. Course 243, speed 5.5 knots, send to TDC, locked. I position my boat for a 70 degree impact angle, a couple fish set with impact fast, a couple magnetic slow. The only place I wanted this guy to go after 2 months of unsuccessful patrol was straight down. Four torps would more than do the job. torpedo gyro angle nearing zero, up periscope for one last range and bearing.... wait a second... 4000 yards??!! WHAA! This guy is literally right in front of me, I even pinged him at 1000 yards. ok so re-check range with tallest mast (merchant base height in RFB 2.0) on stadimeter, 2500???!! WTF!!?? double check ID, checks out, I got the right ship, a Large Merchant. OK so what is going on with this MOD! I quick ping, range 1100, bearing 350, AOB 95, torpedo gyro 004, I gotta shoot now! Spread shots 1 through 4 one degree interval. Fire 1-4! off to the races, 4 fish in the water and screaming home. Looking good, looking good, clunk, dud, clunk, dud, torp 3 miss, torp 4 miss. He begins evasive maneuver and spotlights center on my periscope I mean I had this guy locked dead on, how could this happen?! I'm getting so frustrated with this crap, I have half a mind to go back to stock 1.5 can anyone please help me with this?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

He begins evasive maneuver and spotlights center on my periscope I mean I had this guy locked dead on, how could this happen?! I'm getting so frustrated with this crap, I have half a mind to go back to stock 1.5 can anyone please help me with this?

OK, here we go. No doubt there will be a dozen others posting who disagree with everything I say, but this is my advice.

First, I would not mix slow and fast torpedos, or magnetic and impact ones. This is, IMO, an extra complication you don't need. You didn't say how many observations were made before your attack, or whether you are plotting. I would suggest you make a plot, and have at least half a dozen observations, before you attack. A good plot will reveal any flaws in your firing solution or set up (at least once you have the experience to make full use of it). I know many do not like using plot methods, but this is how it was done for the most part, and provides the best possible situational awareness. The main exception being emergency situations, where there was not sufficient time for plotting. Also, if you were using the the little time computing button on the right slideout, be aware it is not considered to give accurate results. It's best to avoid using it.


I don't know why your range estimates were so different. If you are using sonar, and the stadimeter and sonar differ, I would go with the sonar estimate. Radar, of course, is a big help, if you have it. Ordinarily, I make range estimates at 3 or 6 min. intervals, update the plot and calculate speed, but I give the most recent positions more "weight", and may discard one if it seems implausible. I prefer to use the average of the 2 or 3 most recent observations. Stadimeter estimates of a distant target are unlikely to be very accurate.

I don't want to get too far into the weeds of the TORPEDO PROBLEM. I don't know exactly what works best in RFB, or any other mod. (I am usually in the S-class boats.) Even if I knew exactly what impact angle, what depth, what setting, produced the perfect results, I would not tell you. The whole point of having torpedo failures is that it simulates what was really encountered in the war, and the reality was that torpedos often failed. Having an easy way to sidestep this would be a game exploit, and defeat the purpose of it.

My present thinking about torpedo failure is this:
(I am assuming you are playing at a high level of difficulty here.)


Get a good set up and make your attack, the way you would if the torpedos worked ok.

Accept the fact that many will not perform ideally (or at all).

Launch twice the number you would need, if they were reliable.

If the target is a capitol ship, use as many as possible.

Do not begrudge yourself the extra expenditure of torpedos.

Congatulate yourself for each and every ship sunk.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Get a good set up and make your attack, the way you would if the torpedos worked ok.

Accept the fact that many will not perform ideally (or at all).

Launch twice the number you would need, if they were reliable.

If the target is a capitol ship, use as many as possible.

Do not begrudge yourself the extra expenditure of torpedos.

Congatulate yourself for each and every ship sunk.

I play at 100% realism settings, with no map contact updates. I feel that every point of renown should be correctly earned through skills and abilities, not the game engine. I don't like to ping as it sends up a warning as to where I am, though I'm not sure if a merchant can tell if it's being pinged. As for the stadimeter, I read somewhere within subsim forums that your geographical location on the map can affect the accuracy of your stadimeter, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

Concerning my torpedo selection and settings; At the time of the said attack, my boat was fully loaded with Mk14 torps. I know they are notorious for duds while running high speed with impact pistol at 90 AOB. Thus the reasoning (though maybe not the best reasoning) behind shooting a "mixed batch" of torps. I can successfully conclude that torpedoes one and two were hits but duds, number three either failed to detonate or ran too deep, and number four ran amok, skittering off to the side harmlessly. I'm sure the crew inside that merchant messed their drawers hearing two dull thuds against their hull.

At any rate, I spent the renown and loaded up with Mk10's, and now I'm in port ready to head out to the East China Sea. I've always been a fan of plotting when given the time, but in a hurry the stopwatch icon is good for scratching down a solution for a quick hip shot. We shall see how this next patrol goes.

Respectfully yours,
Commander, USS Silversides

[gi_dan2987]

Ok so I just got back from my fourth patrol into the east china sea, and expended all torpedo stores at two convoys for a total tonnage score of 22,000 GRT. I used plotting methods to gather all the info, and actually never used the periscope once to conduct the attack outside of taking quick peaks to re-verify course and speed.

Once I had a series of range/bearing readings from my radar, I set my intercept for 90 AOB. Once in position approximately 1,000 yards from the estimated enemy course line, I ordered periscope depth, battle stations, and silent running. Sonar man informed me of merchants approaching, multiple contacts. I popped up the scope and took a range and bearing on the center ship, set timer, took another range/bearing at 5 minutes, and marked it on the map. Perfect, course 24 and according to the nomograph the convoy was maintaining its speed of 9 knots consistently. Info locked into TDC, check. All I needed to do was ping and shoot.

I raised the attack scope to note the 3 fattest targets and their bearings, then opened all 6 tubes (Mk10 torps this time) and went to the TDC. When my gyro was reaching zero, I went to the sonar station, found my fatboys on hydrophone. One ping, Two Pings, lock range/bearing, adjust AOB to match course on TDC, Fire one! Fire Two!
Next target, Two pings, lock range/bearing, adjust AOB to course, fire three, fire four!
Next target, same, five and six in the water.

All this pinging gave my position away pretty good, so I dove to test depth and went into silent running. On the way down my sonar man joyfully called out six torpedo impacts, unbelievable! within 45 minutes all three ships were beneath the waves, and I had just racked up 15,000 tons in one salvo. I'm so glad I finally understand how to attack a convoy now. Thanks for all your help fellas! Just on a side note, I refuse to use the dials anymore because they seem to have too much of an error margin.

Cheers!
Commander, USS Silversides.

[altoso99]

I'm playing RFB2.0+patchApril2010+RSRDC_RFB_575+RSRDC5xxPatch (in that order)

I just completed a campaign with a Gato, new construction from early 42 all the way to the end of the war.
Operating from... SUBPAC? (I mean Pearl-Midway-etc, no TASK FORCE) I never got a overhaul, I was stuck with the early war tower, .50 cal machinegun for AA defense and black paint. However, I was able to buy new deck guns.

I turned down a some new submarine offers, I don't know if that has something to do with that... I wanted to keep my sub, but get the overhauls, and I don't know how to do it or if it's possible...

I never got a special mission, it was all go there and sink ships, I wanted some special missions like recon, SF deployment, saving pilots... things like that. I don't know if that's caused by the RSRD campaign...

Now I'm going to start another campaign, this time with a Tambor, any advice? I want to get overhauls and special missions.

[altoso99]

Originally Posted by altoso99

I'm playing RFB2.0+patchApril2010+RSRDC_RFB_575+RSRDC5xxPatch (in that order)

I just completed a campaign with a Gato, new construction from early 42 all the way to the end of the war.
Operating from... SUBPAC? (I mean Pearl-Midway-etc, no TASK FORCE) I never got a overhaul, I was stuck with the early war tower, .50 cal machinegun for AA defense and black paint. However, I was able to buy new deck guns.

I turned down a some new submarine offers, I don't know if that has something to do with that... I wanted to keep my sub, but get the overhauls, and I don't know how to do it or if it's possible...

I never got a special mission, it was all go there and sink ships, I wanted some special missions like recon, SF deployment, saving pilots... things like that. I don't know if that's caused by the RSRD campaign...

Now I'm going to start another campaign, this time with a Tambor, any advice? I want to get overhauls and special missions.

PD: Ups no new construction 42 that was TMO I mean april 42 the first available Gato. Freaking german forum I wanted to edit not quote haha sorry

[gi_dan2987]

I'm now playing TMO 2.5 and I must say that is pretty intense as far as immersion factor goes.

[swdw]

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

Fire 1-4! off to the races, 4 fish in the water and screaming home. Looking good, looking good, clunk, dud, clunk, dud, torp 3 miss, torp 4 miss. He begins evasive maneuver and spotlights center on my periscope I mean I had this guy locked dead on, how could this happen?! I'm getting so frustrated with this crap, I have half a mind to go back to stock 1.5 can anyone please help me with this?

If you downloaded this mod to get historically accurate play, the problem with the dud / missing torpedoes is??

You need to read about the sub that fired TWELVE fish at a target dead in the water and every torpedo either passed under the target or bounced off the hull as a dud.

A lot of work was done to get the failure rate historical at different firing angles. If you want to know what the solution to this, read some history on it. The skippers came up with a not so easy solution that worked comprised of 3 steps.

Not being sarcastic here. Part of the fun is learning the history and about the "conspiracy" of the boat skippers to do exactly the opposite of what fleet headquarters SOP told them to do in order to get more hits and reduce the number of duds.

The ranging issue is something entirely different and do not have a solution for that one.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Originally Posted by swdw

If you downloaded this mod to get historically accurate play, the problem with the dud / missing torpedoes is??

You need to read about the sub that fired TWELVE fish at a target dead in the water and every torpedo either passed under the target or bounced off the hull as a dud.

A lot of work was done to get the failure rate historical at different firing angles. If you want to know what the solution to this, read some history on it. The skippers came up with a not so easy solution that worked comprised of 3 steps.

Not being sarcastic here. Part of the fun is learning the history and about the "conspiracy" of the boat skippers to do exactly the opposite of what fleet headquarters SOP told them to do in order to get more hits and reduce the number of duds.

The ranging issue is something entirely different and do not have a solution for that one.

The only thing more shameful than the Mark 14 torpedo debacle in American Military History is the bulk of America's performance in the War of 1812. The torpedo scandal reflected much of the apathy existing towards the Navy during the Interwar Years. Insufficient funding, poor testing and the cardinal sin of "assumption" pretty much left the submarines impotent in many attacks. Funny thing is that the Germans experienced the same assumption failures regarding ENIGMA intercepts and decoding.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by Schwartzritter

The only thing more shameful than the Mark 14 torpedo debacle in American Military History is the bulk of America's performance in the War of 1812. The torpedo scandal reflected much of the apathy existing towards the Navy during the Interwar Years. Insufficient funding, poor testing and the cardinal sin of "assumption" pretty much left the submarines impotent in many attacks. Funny thing is that the Germans experienced the same assumption failures regarding ENIGMA intercepts and decoding.

For most nations, during a time of peace, the military in general gets cut from the funding list. Only a skeleton defense army is kept, and bare bones navy remains only to act as an immediate defense force. Apathy is the worst scourge of any country, and usually comes from arrogant politicians.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by Schwartzritter

The only thing more shameful than the Mark 14 torpedo debacle in American Military History is the bulk of America's performance in the War of 1812. The torpedo scandal reflected much of the apathy existing towards the Navy during the Interwar Years. Insufficient funding, poor testing and the cardinal sin of "assumption" pretty much left the submarines impotent in many attacks. Funny thing is that the Germans experienced the same assumption failures regarding ENIGMA intercepts and decoding.

For most nations, during a time of peace, the military in general gets cut from the funding list. Only a skeleton defense army is kept, and bare bones navy remains only to act as an immediate defense force. Apathy is the worst scourge of any country, and usually comes from arrogant politicians.