One less F-14 to worry about.

magicstix · 01-26-12, 09:28 PM

I'm planning to have Iranian F-14s in the game I'm working on, I wonder if I should make their engines randomly quit if you apply too much rudder... I don't think anyone would want to fly in them then playing the OPFOR side...

gimpy117 · 01-26-12, 10:54 PM

I can bet that Iran will see more and more of these crashes. Lets face it, those F-14 Air frames are old, and there is an inverse bell curve of air frame age and failures....those air frames are very old, even a civil aircraft of that age would be close to retirement (FedEx gave WMU a FREE 727 because it was old) and a military air frame of this age without major, major overhaul is very prone to just this kind of thing. I bet we can discount the F-14's Iran has soon.

Stealhead · 01-27-12, 01:33 AM

You are assuming that they have not come up with their own program to keep/upgrade the F-14s that they have.I know for a fact that they have performed since the late 90's a very successful program to modernize their C-130Hs which where built in the mid 70's.It is very possible for them to do the same thing with the F-14. Their are plenty of aircraft well over 30 years old still flying there are ways to repair all but the most worn out air frames.Like I said before Iran has found some way to keep all the 30+ year old support equipment running so they probably have found a way to keep the air frames going as well.FedEx also can get a good tax break for donating an old plane the rest probably get sold to some other smaller operator out there.

Give a nation a reason to keep some old air frame flying and they will.Honestly though I think they would see that they get much more bang for their buck acquiring a different air frame.That does not mean that they could have a few good F-14s sitting around.Of course every military in the world knows that the most cost effective form of air defense for your dollar is a good ground based air defense grid.Trust me on this if you talk to any honest USAF or Navy officer especially a well versed Intel analyst they will let you know just how dangerous a modern system.I have friends in the USAF that do just this very job and it is the number one concern way over enemy aircraft and they study these systems heavily they have pretty much every current system at Luke AFB so they know these systems inside and out still they are very dangerous to all but B-2.I don't think it really matters anyway because it is pretty clear that certain interests are destroying Iran little program from within.

01-27-12, 01:56 AM

Let us not forget the ridiculously over-drilled Prussian goose-stepping automaton of 1914 or the inept Jap, night blind, incapable of handling complex machinery and flying pathetic copies of Western aircraft in 1941.

Warplanes tend to be pampered and the fact that these have been flying without any manufacturer support for over 40-years should say something regarding core avionics and crew competence.

We mock them at our peril and underestimating a potential enemy has never been a good idea as the above examples show. They may well be paper-airplanes but it's a tremendously bad idea to treat that assumption as fact.

Jimbuna · 01-27-12, 08:13 AM

I'm suprised they've admitted publicly to losing one

TLAM Strike · 01-27-12, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'm suprised they've admitted publicly to losing one

Possible that someone got it on their camera phone, and they had no choice. It happens a lot over there, the Iranians love their camera phones:

Jimbuna · 01-27-12, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Possible that someone got it on their camera phone, and they had no choice. It happens a lot over there, the Iranians love their camera phones:

That second link was very impressive

Bubblehead1980 · 01-27-12, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomizer

Let us not forget the ridiculously over-drilled Prussian goose-stepping automaton of 1914 or the inept Jap, night blind, incapable of handling complex machinery and flying pathetic copies of Western aircraft in 1941.

Warplanes tend to be pampered and the fact that these have been flying without any manufacturer support for over 40-years should say something regarding core avionics and crew competence.

We mock them at our peril and underestimating a potential enemy has never been a good idea as the above examples show. They may well be paper-airplanes but it's a tremendously bad idea to treat that assumption as fact.

Well said

CCIP · 01-27-12, 11:41 AM

Well, in my case the comments aren't meant to disparage Iran so much as scratch my head at how far they're willing to bend backwards to operate a complex, expensive system without support from the manufacturer and with improvised weapons. That sort of creativity makes good sense with cheap, simple (even if somewhat ridiculous) systems, of which their speedboats may well be an example, but taken on the scale of the F-14 which is obviously meant to oppose first-rate aircraft of their enemies (whether they be Israel, the Arabs, Pakistan, or the US), it just seems like a gigantic waste. It's a lot of work to keep up a system that will immediately fall in the face of its opponents (like the properly-supported, armed and modernized F-15s and F-16s that all of their obvious opponents have), and may well be keeping away resources and manpower from simpler, cheaper, and more probably efficient aircraft. It made sense when it was acquired to face Iraqi MiG-25s head to head, and beat on other less sophisticated Soviet-made aircraft, but it does not stack up against what it faces now. More than a paper tiger, to me it seems like a white elephant.

Stealhead · 01-27-12, 12:38 PM

I am not so concerned about the offensive ability of Iran but I think it would be very unwise to underestimate their defensive ability.The obvious fact that these little covert attacks have been occurring on their nuclear program should make it pretty clear that some nations with very capable air forces very capable strike abilities are preferring the covert route over a direct attack unless there is no other effective recourse.
It is not like the old Iraqi program that was easy to attack and got taken out by the IDAF back in the early 80's.The Iranian facilities are very well protected from air attack just in their construction even if a strike got through it can not be be granted that it will destroy the whole thing in one shot the you are screwed because they will simply spread it out all over the place you only get one good shot.Everyone with half a brain knows that Israel is hard core into preemptive destruction of a danger to itself if they have done nothing yet then it means that they consider current actions to be effective enough or things have not reached a point that makes them wish to take action. Personally I think the entire thing is saber rattling by all sides.Iran knows that it would be wiped off the map if it ever did use a weapon and more than likely if they even got close they know that the program would get destroyed.I think Iran does it to please the hard core regime supporting Iranians.Who cares what they have if they must kill their own people when they protest then their government is weak and will crumble from within sooner or later and the F-14s will see another change in government.

gimpy117 · 01-29-12, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

You are assuming that they have not come up with their own program to keep/upgrade the F-14s that they have.I know for a fact that they have performed since the late 90's a very successful program to modernize their C-130Hs which where built in the mid 70's.It is very possible for them to do the same thing with the F-14. Their are plenty of aircraft well over 30 years old still flying there are ways to repair all but the most worn out air frames.Like I said before Iran has found some way to keep all the 30+ year old support equipment running so they probably have found a way to keep the air frames going as well.FedEx also can get a good tax break for donating an old plane the rest probably get sold to some other smaller operator out there.

were also assuming that they've done this to all their tomcats. That kind of stuff is expensive to do, and very time consuming...and something I'm wondering if they have the technical expertise to do on an air frame that needs high G-loading. A C-130 is great and all, but lets face it, those air frames get a lot less loading on them than a fighter jet. Heck we still have the B-52 G which was introduced in 1961.

Jimbuna · 01-29-12, 04:04 PM

The Iranians obviously have the unguided version of the S-300

kraznyi_oktjabr · 01-29-12, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

The Iranians obviously have the unguided version of the S-300

Yeah. I'm quite curious on what their operating tactic will be? Stop sticks on sky?

Jimbuna · 01-29-12, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Yeah. I'm quite curious on what their operating tactic will be? Stop sticks on sky?

Fill the barrels with oil and bribe any potential aggressor

Herr-Berbunch · 01-29-12, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Yeah. I'm quite curious on what their operating tactic will be? Stop sticks on sky?

Drive up and light a cigarette?

01-26-12, 10:54 PM	#2
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	I can bet that Iran will see more and more of these crashes. Lets face it, those F-14 Air frames are old, and there is an inverse bell curve of air frame age and failures....those air frames are very old, even a civil aircraft of that age would be close to retirement (FedEx gave WMU a FREE 727 because it was old) and a military air frame of this age without major, major overhaul is very prone to just this kind of thing. I bet we can discount the F-14's Iran has soon. __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

01-27-12, 08:13 AM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,561 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I'm suprised they've admitted publicly to losing one __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-27-12, 11:41 AM	#9
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Well, in my case the comments aren't meant to disparage Iran so much as scratch my head at how far they're willing to bend backwards to operate a complex, expensive system without support from the manufacturer and with improvised weapons. That sort of creativity makes good sense with cheap, simple (even if somewhat ridiculous) systems, of which their speedboats may well be an example, but taken on the scale of the F-14 which is obviously meant to oppose first-rate aircraft of their enemies (whether they be Israel, the Arabs, Pakistan, or the US), it just seems like a gigantic waste. It's a lot of work to keep up a system that will immediately fall in the face of its opponents (like the properly-supported, armed and modernized F-15s and F-16s that all of their obvious opponents have), and may well be keeping away resources and manpower from simpler, cheaper, and more probably efficient aircraft. It made sense when it was acquired to face Iraqi MiG-25s head to head, and beat on other less sophisticated Soviet-made aircraft, but it does not stack up against what it faces now. More than a paper tiger, to me it seems like a white elephant. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-29-12, 04:04 PM	#12
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,561 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The Iranians obviously have the unguided version of the S-300 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-26-12, 09:28 PM	#1
magicstix Captain Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Nuclear submarine under the North Pole Posts: 481 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I'm planning to have Iranian F-14s in the game I'm working on, I wonder if I should make their engines randomly quit if you apply too much rudder... I don't think anyone would want to fly in them then playing the OPFOR side...

01-27-12, 01:33 AM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	You are assuming that they have not come up with their own program to keep/upgrade the F-14s that they have.I know for a fact that they have performed since the late 90's a very successful program to modernize their C-130Hs which where built in the mid 70's.It is very possible for them to do the same thing with the F-14. Their are plenty of aircraft well over 30 years old still flying there are ways to repair all but the most worn out air frames.Like I said before Iran has found some way to keep all the 30+ year old support equipment running so they probably have found a way to keep the air frames going as well.FedEx also can get a good tax break for donating an old plane the rest probably get sold to some other smaller operator out there. Give a nation a reason to keep some old air frame flying and they will.Honestly though I think they would see that they get much more bang for their buck acquiring a different air frame.That does not mean that they could have a few good F-14s sitting around.Of course every military in the world knows that the most cost effective form of air defense for your dollar is a good ground based air defense grid.Trust me on this if you talk to any honest USAF or Navy officer especially a well versed Intel analyst they will let you know just how dangerous a modern system.I have friends in the USAF that do just this very job and it is the number one concern way over enemy aircraft and they study these systems heavily they have pretty much every current system at Luke AFB so they know these systems inside and out still they are very dangerous to all but B-2.I don't think it really matters anyway because it is pretty clear that certain interests are destroying Iran little program from within.

01-27-12, 01:56 AM	#4
Randomizer Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Let us not forget the ridiculously over-drilled Prussian goose-stepping automaton of 1914 or the inept Jap, night blind, incapable of handling complex machinery and flying pathetic copies of Western aircraft in 1941. Warplanes tend to be pampered and the fact that these have been flying without any manufacturer support for over 40-years should say something regarding core avionics and crew competence. We mock them at our peril and underestimating a potential enemy has never been a good idea as the above examples show. They may well be paper-airplanes but it's a tremendously bad idea to treat that assumption as fact.

01-27-12, 12:38 PM	#10
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I am not so concerned about the offensive ability of Iran but I think it would be very unwise to underestimate their defensive ability.The obvious fact that these little covert attacks have been occurring on their nuclear program should make it pretty clear that some nations with very capable air forces very capable strike abilities are preferring the covert route over a direct attack unless there is no other effective recourse. It is not like the old Iraqi program that was easy to attack and got taken out by the IDAF back in the early 80's.The Iranian facilities are very well protected from air attack just in their construction even if a strike got through it can not be be granted that it will destroy the whole thing in one shot the you are screwed because they will simply spread it out all over the place you only get one good shot.Everyone with half a brain knows that Israel is hard core into preemptive destruction of a danger to itself if they have done nothing yet then it means that they consider current actions to be effective enough or things have not reached a point that makes them wish to take action. Personally I think the entire thing is saber rattling by all sides.Iran knows that it would be wiped off the map if it ever did use a weapon and more than likely if they even got close they know that the program would get destroyed.I think Iran does it to please the hard core regime supporting Iranians.Who cares what they have if they must kill their own people when they protest then their government is weak and will crumble from within sooner or later and the F-14s will see another change in government.