One less F-14 to worry about.

[gimpy117]

I can bet that Iran will see more and more of these crashes. Lets face it, those F-14 Air frames are old, and there is an inverse bell curve of air frame age and failures....those air frames are very old, even a civil aircraft of that age would be close to retirement (FedEx gave WMU a FREE 727 because it was old) and a military air frame of this age without major, major overhaul is very prone to just this kind of thing. I bet we can discount the F-14's Iran has soon.

[Stealhead]

You are assuming that they have not come up with their own program to keep/upgrade the F-14s that they have.I know for a fact that they have performed since the late 90's a very successful program to modernize their C-130Hs which where built in the mid 70's.It is very possible for them to do the same thing with the F-14. Their are plenty of aircraft well over 30 years old still flying there are ways to repair all but the most worn out air frames.Like I said before Iran has found some way to keep all the 30+ year old support equipment running so they probably have found a way to keep the air frames going as well.FedEx also can get a good tax break for donating an old plane the rest probably get sold to some other smaller operator out there.

Give a nation a reason to keep some old air frame flying and they will.Honestly though I think they would see that they get much more bang for their buck acquiring a different air frame.That does not mean that they could have a few good F-14s sitting around.Of course every military in the world knows that the most cost effective form of air defense for your dollar is a good ground based air defense grid.Trust me on this if you talk to any honest USAF or Navy officer especially a well versed Intel analyst they will let you know just how dangerous a modern system.I have friends in the USAF that do just this very job and it is the number one concern way over enemy aircraft and they study these systems heavily they have pretty much every current system at Luke AFB so they know these systems inside and out still they are very dangerous to all but B-2.I don't think it really matters anyway because it is pretty clear that certain interests are destroying Iran little program from within.

Let us not forget the ridiculously over-drilled Prussian goose-stepping automaton of 1914 or the inept Jap, night blind, incapable of handling complex machinery and flying pathetic copies of Western aircraft in 1941.

Warplanes tend to be pampered and the fact that these have been flying without any manufacturer support for over 40-years should say something regarding core avionics and crew competence.

We mock them at our peril and underestimating a potential enemy has never been a good idea as the above examples show. They may well be paper-airplanes but it's a tremendously bad idea to treat that assumption as fact.

[Jimbuna]

I'm suprised they've admitted publicly to losing one

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'm suprised they've admitted publicly to losing one

Possible that someone got it on their camera phone, and they had no choice. It happens a lot over there, the Iranians love their camera phones:

[Skybird]

While I am all for never underestimating your enemy and the surprises he prepares for you, I think of most conventionel military aspects the Iranian air force is one of those we need to worry the least about. Mines, uboats, speedboats with explosives loaded, and missiles rank much higher on my awareness list. If the Iranian air force dares to show up against a US air raid, they will ask for a confrontation in which their fighters are pretty much chanceless and will not RTB.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Possible that someone got it on their camera phone, and they had no choice. It happens a lot over there, the Iranians love their camera phones:

That second link was very impressive

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

Let us not forget the ridiculously over-drilled Prussian goose-stepping automaton of 1914 or the inept Jap, night blind, incapable of handling complex machinery and flying pathetic copies of Western aircraft in 1941.

Warplanes tend to be pampered and the fact that these have been flying without any manufacturer support for over 40-years should say something regarding core avionics and crew competence.

We mock them at our peril and underestimating a potential enemy has never been a good idea as the above examples show. They may well be paper-airplanes but it's a tremendously bad idea to treat that assumption as fact.

Well said

[CCIP]

Well, in my case the comments aren't meant to disparage Iran so much as scratch my head at how far they're willing to bend backwards to operate a complex, expensive system without support from the manufacturer and with improvised weapons. That sort of creativity makes good sense with cheap, simple (even if somewhat ridiculous) systems, of which their speedboats may well be an example, but taken on the scale of the F-14 which is obviously meant to oppose first-rate aircraft of their enemies (whether they be Israel, the Arabs, Pakistan, or the US), it just seems like a gigantic waste. It's a lot of work to keep up a system that will immediately fall in the face of its opponents (like the properly-supported, armed and modernized F-15s and F-16s that all of their obvious opponents have), and may well be keeping away resources and manpower from simpler, cheaper, and more probably efficient aircraft. It made sense when it was acquired to face Iraqi MiG-25s head to head, and beat on other less sophisticated Soviet-made aircraft, but it does not stack up against what it faces now. More than a paper tiger, to me it seems like a white elephant.

[Stealhead]

I am not so concerned about the offensive ability of Iran but I think it would be very unwise to underestimate their defensive ability.The obvious fact that these little covert attacks have been occurring on their nuclear program should make it pretty clear that some nations with very capable air forces very capable strike abilities are preferring the covert route over a direct attack unless there is no other effective recourse.
It is not like the old Iraqi program that was easy to attack and got taken out by the IDAF back in the early 80's.The Iranian facilities are very well protected from air attack just in their construction even if a strike got through it can not be be granted that it will destroy the whole thing in one shot the you are screwed because they will simply spread it out all over the place you only get one good shot.Everyone with half a brain knows that Israel is hard core into preemptive destruction of a danger to itself if they have done nothing yet then it means that they consider current actions to be effective enough or things have not reached a point that makes them wish to take action. Personally I think the entire thing is saber rattling by all sides.Iran knows that it would be wiped off the map if it ever did use a weapon and more than likely if they even got close they know that the program would get destroyed.I think Iran does it to please the hard core regime supporting Iranians.Who cares what they have if they must kill their own people when they protest then their government is weak and will crumble from within sooner or later and the F-14s will see another change in government.

[GoldenRivet]

if they werent killed in the crash, you can bet they probably would have been executed after it.

[soopaman2]

So why the American aircraft that they cannot get parts for., and not a Russian or Chinese aircraft that they could?

Is it because old, outdated American hardware is better than new Russian or Chinese hardware?


I thought they were their butt-buddies, shouldn't they at least sell them something decent?

1979? I was born in 1978, your jets are slightly younger than me.

Shame.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

So why the American aircraft that they cannot get parts for., and not a Russian or Chinese aircraft that they could?

Is it because old, outdated American hardware is better than new Russian or Chinese hardware?


I thought they were their butt-buddies, shouldn't they at least sell them something decent?

1979? I was born in 1978, your jets are slightly younger than me.

Shame.

Because of the imbargo the Russians and Chinese can't sell them any "offensive" weapons (Bombers, Air to Ground Missiles, Warships over a specific displacement) so the Iranians are basically stuck with North Korean weapons or Shah era weapons for all their major systems.

Basically China sold them this garbage so no one really cared:



The jets they got from Russia (Su-25, MiG-29, Su-24) were flown by defectors from Iraq in 1991. Russia might have sent them some extra air frames and such about the time they got the Kilos because we were kinda friendly to Iran for keeping out of Desert Storm.

Speaking of Su-24s...

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Because of the imbargo the Russians and Chinese can't sell them any "offensive" weapons (Bombers, Air to Ground Missiles, Warships over a specific displacement) so the Iranians are basically stuck with North Korean weapons or Shah era weapons for all their major systems.


The jets they got from Russia (Su-25, MiG-29, Su-24) were flown by defectors from Iraq in 1991. Russia might have sent them some extra air frames and such about the time they got the Kilos because we were kinda friendly to Iran for keeping out of Desert Storm.

Thank you for a serious answer.

I just have a hard time believing this considering how both countries have a " an enemy of my enemy is a friend" mentality.

Not saying America has not participated in such behavior. Just a certain 2 nations who both love Iran, are more than willing to make America look silly at any cost, why not sell them modern MiGs?

Not like anyone (including America) respects the UN.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Speaking of Su-24s...

Boy, I always thought our old F4s would leave quiet a smoke trail but that's nothing compared to that.