Halal and Kosher hit by Dutch ban

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by MH

Nothing to explain.
The Rabbi spoke what he had on his mind...

If some people had been honest with themselves why they support this law it might look a bit diffrent.
I'm sure there is more to this law making than animal welfare consensus.
Also it would be good idea for all Dutch to become vegetarian.
Anyway....if the law makes them feel better about their steaks then well...cool....

And I respect that he spoke what's on his mind. I'm just saying its not always a conspiracy theory to bring back the Holocaust.

What are you implying? That deep down we all secretly hate jews and every law the infringes on their religious laws is a subconscious attempt at creating a pogrom?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Krauter

And I respect that he spoke what's on his mind. I'm just saying its not always a conspiracy theory to bring back the Holocaust.

What are you implying? That deep down we all secretly hate jews and every law the infringes on their religious laws is a subconscious attempt at creating a pogrom?

No i did not say that they hate Jews.
Jews are not the issue here...its more of a European "multiculturalism" issue....wrapped around animal welfare.

[mapuc]

I respect those who's for or against this law, but have this in mind next time you eat in your local McDonald, Burger King or some other fastfood resturant

Some years ago, a documentary on danish tv, showed how those animal was treated or should I say mistreated.

Ohh by the way I'm for this law

And I use to eat at my local Burger king.(2-3 times/ year)


Markus

[Catfish]

And never wear leather boots

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by MH

No i did not say that they hate Jews.
Jews are not the issue here...its more of a European "multiculturalism" issue....wrapped around animal welfare.

What are you saying?

If some people had been honest with themselves why they support this law it might look a bit diffrent.

Just come out and say your opinion otherwise I'm wasting my time trying to make sense of your points.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by MH

Jews are not the issue here...its more of a European "multiculturalism" issue....wrapped around animal welfare.

That is my undersstanding also.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I respect those who's for or against this law, but have this in mind next time you eat in your local McDonald, Burger King or some other fastfood resturant

Some years ago, a documentary on danish tv, showed how those animal was treated or should I say mistreated.

Indeed. I avoid meat from industrial mass production also, well, as best as I can when I buy some. I also do not eat pig, haven'T had beef since months, and have reduced my consumation of chicken even more, to maybe once a week.

Unfortunately chicken farms are a whole story in itself to tell - and a very miserable one. Possible that I will become more and more vegetarian all by itself over the coming years. Have already been that for almost ten years since my late teen-years, but that's long time ago.

Anyhow, the misery of industrial meat factories is no reason why halal and kosher slaughtering should be considered acceptable.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Indeed. I avoid meat from industrial mass production also, well, as best as I can when I buy some. I also do not eat pig, haven'T had beef since months, and have reduced my consumation of chicken even more, to maybe once a week.

Unfortunately chicken farms are a whole story in itself to tell - and a very miserable one. Possible that I will become more and more vegetarian all by itself over the coming years. Have already been that for almost ten years since my late teen-years, but that's long time ago.

Anyhow, the misery of industrial meat factories is no reason why halal and kosher slaughtering should be considered acceptable.

I do not eat pork-I don't like the taste and the smell.

I do like a welldone T-bone steak, but it's not without thinking on the cow and if it had have a good life and a painless and a nonstressed slaughter.

If they really is thinking animal wellfare, then they should ban Burger King, Mcdonalds and other fastfood resturant that use industrial mass production.

I love meat to much to denie it.

Markus

[tater]

Well done?

If you'd going to do that to steak, save a cow's life and eat TVP or something. Heck, that goes for cooking it past medium rare or so.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

What is it with political parties that put the word "freedom" in their name?

It's sort of similar to countries which have democratic in their names, but none of them are.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

It's sort of similar to countries which have democratic in their names, but none of them are.

Don't you mean all of them?

HunterICX

[tater]

OK, I just checked out the "freedom party."

I was rather surprised, actually. I expected something entirely different that platform statements like: "Politics (Consent): Freedom Party takes the view that the initiation of coercive physical force has no place in relations between individuals, and that all relations between and among individuals - and between governments and those they govern - must be consensual."

And: "Metaphysics (Reality): Freedom Party International regards nothing as supernatural or magical. That which exists, exists physically and naturally. The universe exists independently of ones own mind and is not affected by what one merely thinks, prays, wishes, or hopes about the nature of reality."

Usually people in europe like to define "right wing" as having to do with persecution based on indelible traits (racism, etc), even when their other politics are in fact quite leftist (collectivism, strong, central government control, etc).

Assuming I didn't follow a link to the wrong "freedom party international," or their mission statement is in fact a lie, I'm not seeing a problem with them. Again, this is from reading their own web page, never heard of them before.

Regardless, there should be no religious exceptions to any laws, IMHO. If there is a humane way of slaughtering animals for food, leather, etc, then that is the way they should be killed, PERIOD. If that makes some people upset because it is contrary to the book(s) they think are magical, tough. My reaction would be that they should go start a theocracy someplace else.

Note that such laws are usually only in force for commercial entities. So farmers can still use whatever cruel method they wish for their own (not for sale) food. If this means such communities have to start farms, hunt, etc, to get meat, or even import meat from abroad, that's not really a hardship in the modern world (the latter in particular).

[tater]

Ah, I see that the Dutch party is actually the "Party for Freedom" so there might be a difference. Though they are described as a liberal party by wiki.

(I'm immediately reminded of The Life of Brian, lol—"we HATE the judean people's front!")

Ah, I see that the Dutch party is actually the "Party for Freedom" so there might be a difference. Though they are described as a liberal party by wiki.

A word that changes as it crossses the atlantic. They broke from the Freedom and Deomcracy party which would be the conservative liberalism, the party for freedom has gone past the conservative background into simple right wing populism....or simpletons right wing populism.

Regardless, there should be no religious exceptions to any laws, IMHO. If there is a humane way of slaughtering animals for food, leather, etc, then that is the way they should be killed, PERIOD.

What about fish?

Note that such laws are usually only in force for commercial entities. So farmers can still use whatever cruel method they wish for their own (not for sale) food.

No, if you are farming as a commercial enterprise you still run in to all sorts of regulations when it comes to slaughtering for your own consumption.

[tater]

In the US, there would be a difference if commerce is involved. No one is looking over a hunter's shoulder to make sure the animal didn't run off and die slowly in the bush.

It may be different in europe, I have no idea. It would seem reasonable that there would be different standards for animals farmed for sale vs personal use, though.

I dunno if there are rules for fish. In the US there are rules regarding sizes, sexes, etc for fishing, but it's not about cruelty, just trying to preserve fisheries.

Fish and birds are pretty stupid, though, so I'd imagine they are treated a little differently than mammals. Still, my point stands that if there is a method agreed with by society as "humane," all people should have to follow the humane rules, regardless of what a book they claim to be magical says.