Sinking destroyer with deck gun

1480 · 10-29-11, 09:37 AM

Shucks, run gwx and see how much fun it is trying to gun down a merchie after circa mid-1940.....

papa_smurf · 10-29-11, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1480

Shucks, run gwx and see how much fun it is trying to gun down a merchie after circa mid-1940.....

It was a shock to me, now just sink with eels.

Capt. Morgan · 10-29-11, 02:04 PM

The convoy attack scenario takes place before the war starts, so those escorts are neutral - you can run circles around the them and they won't attack you (until you initiate an attack).

In war time you would find it very difficult to get that close to a R.N. destroyer on the surface. At longer range, a destroyers gunfire will be much more accurate than your subs, and Also, a destroyer can bring between four to six guns to bare whereas you only have one. Hence the reluctance you see here to attack destroyers on the surface in wartime.

Raptor · 10-29-11, 03:24 PM

Deck guns are for sinking small vessels not deemed worthy of one of your precious eels, finishing off crippled, unarmed mechants, and last ditch "Hail Mary" self-defense against attacking warships when you can not submerge or otherwise escape.

Because of their larger size, warships make a far more stable gun platform than does your u-boot. They also have more and usually larger guns than you do. All that translates into greater accuracy for them and more damage for you.

SH3 appears to have taken that into consideration for the AI, and you can get sunk pretty fast gunning it out with a DD or DE.

I've sunk Corvettes and armed trawlers with my deck gun, but never without taking serious damage to both boat and crew. I loose more watch officers that way.

Unnecessary gunfights with surface vessels, especially warships, is at best foolhardy and at worst suicidal - especially after 1940.

DIVE!
DIVE!
DIVE!

Tessa · 10-30-11, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1480

Shucks, run gwx and see how much fun it is trying to gun down a merchie after circa mid-1940.....

Most can't hit anything if you're beyond 2000m. Would much rather stay further away and go through 20 shells and sink the stupid armed merchant that doesn't know how to use their gun (for awhile longer) and save my eels for a more fitting target like a flat top or BB in a task force.

1480 · 10-30-11, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessa

Most can't hit anything if you're beyond 2000m. Would much rather stay further away and go through 20 shells and sink the stupid armed merchant that doesn't know how to use their gun (for awhile longer) and save my eels for a more fitting target like a flat top or BB in a task force.

True, but it is still a shock the first time you realize that sucker is popping at you. NOT FAIR!!!!

Hinrich Schwab · 10-30-11, 05:17 PM

Attacking a destroyer on the surface is crazy. I have had the misfortune of being in this situation twice. I used similar tactics both times, but neither kill came from the deck gun. Both times I duped the destroyer into playing chicken. Both my boat and the destroyer running Ahead Flank guns blazing, I would get occasional hits, but the one gun focused on me usually overshot (the main reason for the rundown was to avoid a broadside attack from all the destroyer's guns). When I got around 800 meters, I would snapshot one or two torpedoes and crash dive, hoping to clear his keel before losing my conning tower. While I was successful both times, it is not an experience I would want to repeat. The best way to beat a destroyer is to light up whatever he is protecting and let him return home to tell his superiors that he didn't protect squat.

CCIP · 10-30-11, 05:58 PM

The trouble for the game, of course, is that destroyers just have HP. Run it down and you win. Subs also just have HP, and can take hits easily. In reality, the chance that you would do any serious damage to a destroyer charging you head on is miniscule. The chance that a single hit in the pressure hull would kill you is very high. He also has much more accurate, faster-loading and deadly guns. So what would actually happen is that even if the sub was still in one piece after a few shots, the average destroyer is 2x faster - so you'd get rammed and that'd be the end of it.

Sub vs. destroyer showdowns like that never historically happened. Showdowns between subs and corvettes and gunboats did, but even then subs have a pretty poor record in those (afaik they never did better than a draw in those situations, and that's against ships whom they matched in surface firepower and exceeded in tonnage).

Torplexed · 10-30-11, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Showdowns between subs and corvettes and gunboats did, but even then subs have a pretty poor record in those (afaik they never did better than a draw in those situations, and that's against ships whom they matched in surface firepower and exceeded in tonnage).

About the only situation in WW2 where I can recall where a submarine outfought escorts on the surface was the October 1944 battle between the USS Salmon and two circling Japanese Kaikoban escort vessels. Forced to surface, she managed to overwhelm one of them with gunfire at close range and make a break for it. Even that was a bit of a fluke as the Japanese thought there were other US subs submerged and angling for an attack and broke off the engagement when Salmon entered a rain squall.

http://todayshistorylesson.wordpress...almon-patties/

Hinrich Schwab · 10-30-11, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

The trouble for the game, of course, is that destroyers just have HP. Run it down and you win. Subs also just have HP, and can take hits easily. In reality, the chance that you would do any serious damage to a destroyer charging you head on is miniscule. The chance that a single hit in the pressure hull would kill you is very high. He also has much more accurate, faster-loading and deadly guns. So what would actually happen is that even if the sub was still in one piece after a few shots, the average destroyer is 2x faster - so you'd get rammed and that'd be the end of it.

Sub vs. destroyer showdowns like that ever historically happened. Showdowns between subs and corvettes and gunboats did, but even then subs have a pretty poor record in those (afaik they never did better than a draw in those situations, and that's against ships whom they matched in surface firepower and exceeded in tonnage).

That is also the beauty of the game. As good as the AI can be, it is also unbelievably stupid. Any destroyer captain worth the hot seat would maneuver around a sub to avoid presenting any target to the fore or aft of the boat because of the torpedoes. The game, conversely, can be a bit single-minded.

Sailor Steve · 10-30-11, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartzritter

That is also the beauty of the game.

Only if you just want to play a videogame with submarines. To those of us who play it for the simulation factor that is no beauty at all.

soopaman2 · 10-31-11, 11:24 AM

In 75% of cases with GWX, the destroyer will mess you up good.

I would say you got the jump on him, and your initial shots knocked out its guns (just proposing, of course I don't know)

Luck is a huge factor as well as skill, I would say you were blessed by both, sir.

Just don't think that is going to work every time.

Gwx is cool like that. Too many times I got cocky and got sunk.

10-29-11, 09:37 AM	#1
1480 Lead Slinger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chitcago, Illinoise Posts: 1,442 Downloads: 74 Uploads: 0	Shucks, run gwx and see how much fun it is trying to gun down a merchie after circa mid-1940..... __________________

10-29-11, 02:04 PM	#3
Capt. Morgan Commander Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Just east of the west coast. Posts: 463 Downloads: 423 Uploads: 0	The convoy attack scenario takes place before the war starts, so those escorts are neutral - you can run circles around the them and they won't attack you (until you initiate an attack). In war time you would find it very difficult to get that close to a R.N. destroyer on the surface. At longer range, a destroyers gunfire will be much more accurate than your subs, and Also, a destroyer can bring between four to six guns to bare whereas you only have one. Hence the reluctance you see here to attack destroyers on the surface in wartime. __________________ There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet. -- Admiral William Halsey Last edited by Capt. Morgan; 10-29-11 at 07:13 PM.

10-29-11, 03:24 PM	#4
Raptor Weps Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pacific NW, USA Posts: 350 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Deck guns are for sinking small vessels not deemed worthy of one of your precious eels, finishing off crippled, unarmed mechants, and last ditch "Hail Mary" self-defense against attacking warships when you can not submerge or otherwise escape. Because of their larger size, warships make a far more stable gun platform than does your u-boot. They also have more and usually larger guns than you do. All that translates into greater accuracy for them and more damage for you. SH3 appears to have taken that into consideration for the AI, and you can get sunk pretty fast gunning it out with a DD or DE. I've sunk Corvettes and armed trawlers with my deck gun, but never without taking serious damage to both boat and crew. I loose more watch officers that way. Unnecessary gunfights with surface vessels, especially warships, is at best foolhardy and at worst suicidal - especially after 1940. DIVE! DIVE! DIVE! __________________ Raptor

10-30-11, 05:58 PM	#8
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	The trouble for the game, of course, is that destroyers just have HP. Run it down and you win. Subs also just have HP, and can take hits easily. In reality, the chance that you would do any serious damage to a destroyer charging you head on is miniscule. The chance that a single hit in the pressure hull would kill you is very high. He also has much more accurate, faster-loading and deadly guns. So what would actually happen is that even if the sub was still in one piece after a few shots, the average destroyer is 2x faster - so you'd get rammed and that'd be the end of it. Sub vs. destroyer showdowns like that never historically happened. Showdowns between subs and corvettes and gunboats did, but even then subs have a pretty poor record in those (afaik they never did better than a draw in those situations, and that's against ships whom they matched in surface firepower and exceeded in tonnage). __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) Last edited by CCIP; 10-30-11 at 06:28 PM.

10-31-11, 11:24 AM	#12
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	In 75% of cases with GWX, the destroyer will mess you up good. I would say you got the jump on him, and your initial shots knocked out its guns (just proposing, of course I don't know) Luck is a huge factor as well as skill, I would say you were blessed by both, sir. Just don't think that is going to work every time. Gwx is cool like that. Too many times I got cocky and got sunk. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

10-30-11, 05:17 PM	#7
Hinrich Schwab Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 908 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	Attacking a destroyer on the surface is crazy. I have had the misfortune of being in this situation twice. I used similar tactics both times, but neither kill came from the deck gun. Both times I duped the destroyer into playing chicken. Both my boat and the destroyer running Ahead Flank guns blazing, I would get occasional hits, but the one gun focused on me usually overshot (the main reason for the rundown was to avoid a broadside attack from all the destroyer's guns). When I got around 800 meters, I would snapshot one or two torpedoes and crash dive, hoping to clear his keel before losing my conning tower. While I was successful both times, it is not an experience I would want to repeat. The best way to beat a destroyer is to light up whatever he is protecting and let him return home to tell his superiors that he didn't protect squat.