Military buildup

[MH]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

That problem ain't limited to one navy then:


.

Take into consideration that this snapshot was taken in peace time when guards are relatively relaxed.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by MH

Take into consideration that this snapshot was taken in peace time when guards are relatively relaxed.

This one better then?

[MH]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

This one better then?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

This one better then?

Belgrano's escorts didn't have any demi-decent sonar. Though I agree with the point that surface vessels are more vulnerable to subs than they like to admit.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Belgrano's escorts didn't have any demi-decent sonar. Though I agree with the point that surface vessels are more vulnerable to subs than they like to admit.

The mere thought of Argentinas SSKs gave the British fleet kittens, heck if a dozy Argie engineer hadn't have put the umbilical cable to the San Luis's torpedoes in backwards then we could have lost at least two warships to her.
The Santa Fe also acted as a deterrent to our fleet until she was crippled by a DC attack and forced to surrender, and she was an old Balao class.

I wonder if you take the actual number of world leaders from every Nation and worked out how many people they accutaly represent globaly, then worked out how many leaders are actively carring out the wishes of all those humans, sorreee, I get carried away .

Got to disagree with you on your point about resource wars being fictional. Japan's expansion in the 1930's and into the 40's was ALL about resources and access to them. It was no fiction that they needed access to oil, rubber etc. to continue their imperialist desires and that desire itself was due to the fact that Japan was largely shut out of resource trading by the Western Powers whose own imperial desires had led them to dominate most of Asia in order to gain the resources they needed to feed that desire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_...es_and_markets

Japan's aim was autarky, a totally self contained and prosperous economic system where there would be no requirement for foreign involvement. Resources were only part of the picture as was elimination of European colonial holdings in east Asia and a military/cultural requirement to dominate. You missed the latter part of my statement, that other factors are always included in so-called resource wars and frequently the resources are not the root cause but rather an incidental benefit. Had oil and rubber alone been Japan's goal, Pearl Harbor made no sense since Roosevelt would never have gone to war to save the Netherlands East Indies.

Germany's economic wealth in the later part of the 1930's was also deficit based, which meant that it was funded by loans which, in a number of historian's opinions, Hitler never intended to repay. Going to way was one way of doing that. In the four years before 1939, wages, and prices were fixed by the government and violators were interred in concentration camps. Their massive unemployment problems in the early 30's were solved in part by removing Jewish workers from the economy and replacing them with unemployed non-Jews.

The existence of deficit spending had more to do with the unhealthy taxation policy of Germany inherited from the federal Second Reich and the Republic. Until hostilities broke out Germany could easily service its debts and no unforeseen financial crisis was pending so the level of government spending remained significant. As for Hitler intending to default, we don't know since he never got the chance. That Germany defaulted on reparations payments, considered unfair and imposed at gun point, does not automatically indicate non-payment of legitimate debts.

The use of slave labour was an net economic drain and a bad idea for reasons that had nothing to do with the human cost. Slavery doesn't work in free market industrial economies and the Nazi pogrom against the Jews was entirely self-defeating from an economic standpoint alone. Also, Germany's labour shortage was exacerbated by a bloated Party apparatus and Civil Service that absorbed huge numbers of potential workers and the total failure to utilize German women in industry in any systemic way. Standing polices and inefficiencies, some endemic to the regime, others inherited from Wiemar created the conditions where slavery seemed to provide a quick fix.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by magicstix

It's no secret what China is up to. They're building a blue water navy specifically for challenging the USA in their obsession with Taiwan.. They're already starting to throw their weight around with their neighbors to enforce other policy goals like ownership of the South China Sea. This leads to all the regional powers wanting to build up their militaries to counter the Chinese threat.

Why china needs us:
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2...a.needs.us.cnn

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The mere thought of Argentinas SSKs gave the British fleet kittens, heck if a dozy Argie engineer hadn't have put the umbilical cable to the San Luis's torpedoes in backwards then we could have lost at least two warships to her.
The Santa Fe also acted as a deterrent to our fleet until she was crippled by a DC attack and forced to surrender, and she was an old Balao class.

Found this from Wikipedia:

San Luis was free to patrol and this caused the British task force to be on the defensive at all times. The British expended most of their ordnance on suspected contacts, most of which were false contacts caused by the ocean's many anomalies. The British ships present to counter the Argentine submarine threat were: one carrier, eleven destroyers, five nuclear-powered submarines, one diesel submarine, and over 25 helicopters. Even though no ships were sunk by the San Luis, this is an impressive amount of ships to be tied up by one diesel powered submarine. This is more impressive considering that she was not even hit by the British force. —Lt Cdr Steven R Harper USN

[Oberon]

Indeed, and she fired a SST-4 torpedo at HMS Brilliant or Yarmouth, and missed. Then later she fired another two at HMS Arrow and Alacrity, one of which didn't leave the tube and the other went wide. That's four ships that if one Argentinian sailor hadn't wired the umbilical up wrong might well have been sunk.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The mere thought of Argentinas SSKs gave the British fleet kittens, heck if a dozy Argie engineer hadn't have put the umbilical cable to the San Luis's torpedoes in backwards then we could have lost at least two warships to her.

She made a torpedo attack on a sub contact as well with a Mk37.

The Santa Fe also acted as a deterrent to our fleet until she was crippled by a DC attack and forced to surrender, and she was an old Balao class.

The Brits tried to send a SSN after her but Conquer failed to get the message.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Belgrano's escorts didn't have any demi-decent sonar. Though I agree with the point that surface vessels are more vulnerable to subs than they like to admit.

INS Kukuri was equipped with a decent sonar and was taken out by a Down the Throat shot with a homing torpedo. INS Kirpan almost suffered the same fate put put the torpedo in to a stern chase and ran it to exhaustion.

The ROKS Cheonan didn't have a bad sonar but it wasn't good either. Its was a middle of the road type derived from the FFG-7's sonar and had a max range of 8 nmi.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

She made a torpedo attack on a sub contact as well with a Mk37.

The Brits tried to send a SSN after her but Conquer failed to get the message.

I didn't know she had Mk37s, I thought most of her gear was German. I wonder what the contact was...could have been Onyx with her duff bow tube.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I didn't know she had Mk37s, I thought most of her gear was German. I wonder what the contact was...could have been Onyx with her duff bow tube.

Probably from the kit we sold them for the GUPPIES. Most likely it was a whale, but who knows. Both sides are still very 'hush hush' about the sub ops down there.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Any good books on the naval side of the Falklands conflict? Just so I can add them to the ever-growing list of other titles I don't have time to read.