No survivors - Page 3

Stealhead · 05-12-11, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviv

Very few Japanese war criminals went to jail or were executed. Neither were many Americans, either. What I find difficult to accept is how easily people remember war crimes that the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc (and for me, Israelis too) have done, yet easily forget things like the killing of surrendered soldiers and the bombing of Dresden in WWII, My Lai massacre and chemical warfare in Vietnam. Of course it happens today as well, and nobody remembers where 47 civilians at a wedding party were killed by US forces in Mukaradeeb, Iraq. In fact civilian casualties are hardly reported at all. It's all to do with how the medias choose to show things to people.

As an example in my country; when a Palestinian/s is killed, it makes world news for days. When an Israeli family of 5 is killed in their sleep, it doesn't even make national news in a lot of countries. That rockets fall on southern Israeli towns each day is not reported either.

I would like to see more effort towards more balanced journalism.
Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-US, I just think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented in the medias. I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just something I feel strongly about.

Well it depends on the situation some things you are speaking of where not intended by military high command and where mistakes and others others where purposeful there is a huge difference(not referring to the rocket attacks).I know for a fact that the Mai Lai commanding officer (don't recall his name) was court marshaled and found to be guilty but received pardon later I think from Ford.

And in some cases like General Yama----a "The Tiger of Malay"(http://www.google.com/search?q=The+T...ient=firefox-a go to the wiki page cant direct link thanks to ---- being removed even when it not ----

) he was tried and found guilty of POW treatment in the Philippines even though he took over that command in 1944 and did not set the standard of treatment that the previous commanders set he did not really change anything he and nothing to do with the Bataan Death March in 1942 but was found guilty because even though he did not directly promote bad treatment he did not do anything to stop it either though that was the view of his high command so it is not like they'd have listened to him had wanted to improve things for POWs some of his troops killed Brit POWs in Malaya in 1942 but he may not have even been aware of it.

You aren't going to find very many truly balanced media sources I think that people should be better educated to evaluate different sources to have a more balanced view of things they get form media.

I do agree with you opinion but I disagree that mistakes and actions the US have done are not known about I know about the wedding you speak of and other mistaken attacks on people that have occurred in Afghanistan.Also many Americans know about the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.The US and Israel are the same boat when it comes to our military actions and medias view on them in many cases.

Daniel Prates · 05-12-11, 02:18 PM

Yep, war is war. I don't think there is one single country that can bragg about having a 100% licit conduct during conflict.

Fellas, please do not misunderstand me. I only posted the video link to check out your inputs, meaning not to start some controversy.

Personally I think it's bogus too, how come the sailos use 4 different kinds of automatics on the drifter?

In the 1860s, in what today is known as the 'paraguay war', brasilian troops droped dead bodies into the rivers that supplied assunción with water, in order to poison the entire city's population. Crude, eh? You should imagine that mankind would evolve in 150 years but the war in Yugoslavia was not any better - and that was less than 20 years ago, so it makes you wonder...

Stealhead · 05-12-11, 10:13 PM

Makes me think of the scene in Dr.Stangelove when they start to fight and the President yells at them for fighting in the war room.It does seem odd to place rules on something as immoral as killing another person which it what warfare is legalized murder in the name of a state no matter if you follow the "laws" of war or are completely brutal. I know that my dad loved to hunt when he was a kid he never hunted again after serving in Vietnam he told me he felt no need to kill another living thing for sport after seeing so many Americans killed by Vietnamese and vice verse.

WernherVonTrapp · 05-13-11, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviv

Very few Japanese war criminals went to jail or were executed. Neither were many Americans, either. What I find difficult to accept is how easily people remember war crimes that the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc (and for me, Israelis too) have done, yet easily forget things like the killing of surrendered soldiers and the bombing of Dresden in WWII, My Lai massacre and chemical warfare in Vietnam. Of course it happens today as well, and nobody remembers where 47 civilians at a wedding party were killed by US forces in Mukaradeeb, Iraq. In fact civilian casualties are hardly reported at all. It's all to do with how the medias choose to show things to people.

As an example in my country; when a Palestinian/s is killed, it makes world news for days. When an Israeli family of 5 is killed in their sleep, it doesn't even make national news in a lot of countries. That rockets fall on southern Israeli towns each day is not reported either.

I would like to see more effort towards more balanced journalism.
Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-US, I just think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented in the medias. I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just something I feel strongly about.

Wow, where do you get your information from Aviv? Sounds like you're reading the wrong newspapers.

At least 900 Japanese were executed for war crimes and thousands spent varying amounts of time in prison. That sounds like a lot more than "very few" to me. War is Hell indeed, and people die for a myriad of reasons during one. Yes, I believe that things have been and will continue to be misrepresented by the various News Media, but not because of collusion or conspiracies, as you make it sound.
If you want to find out about such things, do some research. You might find that you've missed a lot of the News that has been reported, as opposed to the News not being reported.

Daniel Prates · 05-13-11, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

At least 900 Japanese were executed for war crimes and thousands spent varying amounts of time in prison.

A movie sugestion: "merry christmas mr. lawrence", also called "furyo" in some countries (europe for instance). It's on this subjetc, and it has a very interesting psicological underline.

It's with David Bowie, so what the hell? Watch it!

Dogfish40 · 05-13-11, 11:02 AM

There is so much I could say on this subject it would read like a book. I'll just agree with Wernher here and say that the US military unlike a lot of other countries have brought not only war to other countries but help, humanitarian aid, and order. Videos such as these just propagate hate and twist history. The silent service had rules of engagement even with the order laid down after Pearl Harbor and no sub crew in the navy would have kept silent about the killing of survivors in the water. Subs did indeed pick up prisoners from time to time, they did not fire upon people in the water unless there was an attack or attempted attack on the boat or it's crew period!

D40

WernherVonTrapp · 05-13-11, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

It just so happens that, not only have I seen this video, and once almost believed it, I have since accumulated quite a collection of WWII Documentaries on DVD. I have, in it's entirety, the actual footage of that Japanese sailor blowing himself up with a hand grenade. I also have some of the other sections of that footage in it's entirety. In the actual footage, no U.S. sailor is shooting at, or attempting to shoot at him. They were trying earnestly to rescue him. He just blew himself up in the long standing (well documented), time honored, tradition of the Japanese soldier/sailor whose sacred belief would be to die, rather than be taken prisoner.

That YouTube video is a heavily doctored video, spliced and pieced together in order to deceive. The saddest part of all is that (as we've seen) there are those who will automatically believe such rubbish (probably due to a predisposition) simply because some unknown entity/factor posted it on the web. IMO, it just goes to show one of the susceptibilities that can occur when History is forgotten. Then, we just believe what anyone tells us because we don't know (the truth) otherwise.

Daniel Prates · 05-13-11, 02:48 PM

Quite right.

Stealhead · 05-13-11, 07:14 PM

[/QUOTE]I believe Mush Morton was involved in one very serious incident of gunning down shipwrecked men in small boats, believing them Japanese troops bound for New Guinea. In sad fact, they were mainly Indian POWs of 2nd Battalion, 16th Punjab Regiment, plus escorting forces from the 26th Field Ordnance Depot. I don't think anyone filmed it though.[/QUOTE]

There is much argument about what really happened in this "incident" so no one can honestly say what Mortons intent was or what happened(there are several different versions) O'Kane says that they only fired on the boats and any person that fired on the Wahoo also it was a Japanses claim that Indian POWs where on the boat so take that with a grain of salt.

Personally I do not trust Wikipedia as a definitive source anyone can place anything they want on an article there and unless someone who truly knows has it changed it will be there.

TheAbyss · 05-14-11, 02:04 AM

No survivors! Damn right.

Gun 'em, then gun 'em again till you're sure they're burley for the sharks.

It's more humane anyway for most of the ships I've sunk (middle of relatively nowhere, a salvo of fish on one side; no chance of getting a signal out).

Daniel Prates · 05-14-11, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAbyss

No survivors! Damn right.

Gun 'em, then gun 'em again till you're sure they're burley for the sharks.

It's more humane anyway for most of the ships I've sunk (middle of relatively nowhere, a salvo of fish on one side; no chance of getting a signal out).

Nasty!

Dogfish40 · 05-16-11, 10:08 AM

Well, Wonders of wonders. The dang survivors are back. I ran into a med tanker (unescorted, whoopie!!) last night and the tanker ran into a slight buoyancy problem because of an unrequested munitions surplus. Well, after the ship had disappeared we surfaced and lo and behold, through my binocs I viewed a lifeboat with survivors.
I really haven't taken away any of the Mods, however, since I was experimenting with them, the order of the mods has changed, so this could be the fix that was needed. I did swap one of the speech mods for another as I was getting a doubling effect and figured that the MOD was playing the sound twice. Well, now all seems to be well.
Now I can mess with it some more and screw it up again!
Thanks everyone and Good Hunting.
D40

raoul01 · 05-19-11, 08:21 AM

you know what weart is if you destroy a lifecraft it does'nt sink and every body survive it.

Solidsnake2234 · 09-18-11, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_Rimmer

I hate to say it; but often I machine gun the survivors anyways.

I like your style

Though in WWII, some sub captains would order the crew to shoot at the survivors.

Daniel Prates · 09-18-11, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solidsnake2234

I like your style

Though in WWII, some sub captains would order the crew to shoot at the survivors.

Oooooowww... bad topic.

I'll be diving away to stear clear from this controversy being raised here yet again....

05-12-11, 10:13 PM	#33
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Makes me think of the scene in Dr.Stangelove when they start to fight and the President yells at them for fighting in the war room.It does seem odd to place rules on something as immoral as killing another person which it what warfare is legalized murder in the name of a state no matter if you follow the "laws" of war or are completely brutal. I know that my dad loved to hunt when he was a kid he never hunted again after serving in Vietnam he told me he felt no need to kill another living thing for sport after seeing so many Americans killed by Vietnamese and vice verse. Last edited by Stealhead; 05-12-11 at 10:23 PM.

05-13-11, 11:02 AM	#36
Dogfish40 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: LA Area, Central coast, California Posts: 1,023 Downloads: 827 Uploads: 0	There is so much I could say on this subject it would read like a book. I'll just agree with Wernher here and say that the US military unlike a lot of other countries have brought not only war to other countries but help, humanitarian aid, and order. Videos such as these just propagate hate and twist history. The silent service had rules of engagement even with the order laid down after Pearl Harbor and no sub crew in the navy would have kept silent about the killing of survivors in the water. Subs did indeed pick up prisoners from time to time, they did not fire upon people in the water unless there was an attack or attempted attack on the boat or it's crew period! D40 __________________ *Dogfish40*

05-16-11, 10:08 AM	#42
Dogfish40 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: LA Area, Central coast, California Posts: 1,023 Downloads: 827 Uploads: 0	Well, Wonders of wonders. The dang survivors are back. I ran into a med tanker (unescorted, whoopie!!) last night and the tanker ran into a slight buoyancy problem because of an unrequested munitions surplus. Well, after the ship had disappeared we surfaced and lo and behold, through my binocs I viewed a lifeboat with survivors. I really haven't taken away any of the Mods, however, since I was experimenting with them, the order of the mods has changed, so this could be the fix that was needed. I did swap one of the speech mods for another as I was getting a doubling effect and figured that the MOD was playing the sound twice. Well, now all seems to be well. Now I can mess with it some more and screw it up again! Thanks everyone and Good Hunting. D40 __________________ *Dogfish40*

05-12-11, 02:18 PM	#32
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Yep, war is war. I don't think there is one single country that can bragg about having a 100% licit conduct during conflict. Fellas, please do not misunderstand me. I only posted the video link to check out your inputs, meaning not to start some controversy. Personally I think it's bogus too, how come the sailos use 4 different kinds of automatics on the drifter? In the 1860s, in what today is known as the 'paraguay war', brasilian troops droped dead bodies into the rivers that supplied assunción with water, in order to poison the entire city's population. Crude, eh? You should imagine that mankind would evolve in 150 years but the war in Yugoslavia was not any better - and that was less than 20 years ago, so it makes you wonder...

05-13-11, 02:48 PM	#38
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Quite right.

05-13-11, 07:14 PM	#39
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	[/QUOTE]I believe Mush Morton was involved in one very serious incident of gunning down shipwrecked men in small boats, believing them Japanese troops bound for New Guinea. In sad fact, they were mainly Indian POWs of 2nd Battalion, 16th Punjab Regiment, plus escorting forces from the 26th Field Ordnance Depot. I don't think anyone filmed it though.[/QUOTE] There is much argument about what really happened in this "incident" so no one can honestly say what Mortons intent was or what happened(there are several different versions) O'Kane says that they only fired on the boats and any person that fired on the Wahoo also it was a Japanses claim that Indian POWs where on the boat so take that with a grain of salt. Personally I do not trust Wikipedia as a definitive source anyone can place anything they want on an article there and unless someone who truly knows has it changed it will be there.

05-14-11, 02:04 AM	#40
TheAbyss Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 12 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	No survivors! Damn right. Gun 'em, then gun 'em again till you're sure they're burley for the sharks. It's more humane anyway for most of the ships I've sunk (middle of relatively nowhere, a salvo of fish on one side; no chance of getting a signal out).

05-19-11, 08:21 AM	#43
raoul01 Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2009 Location: Zweden Posts: 122 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	you know what weart is if you destroy a lifecraft it does'nt sink and every body survive it.