In Immigrant Areas, a Culture Clash Over Gay Marriage - Page 7

mookiemookie · 09-09-11, 07:52 PM

Just let it go. People like that are sold on their ideas and there's no changing them.

ZeeWolf · 09-09-11, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krauter

Wow. Sorry I actually kind of fell out of chair laughing there for a sec. After reading this, I'm sorry but I just can't take you seriously anymore.

As for me being a "pouter" where did you ever get that inclination?

Look if you do not like or except what I say that's fine but you name call
personal attacks are out of line.
I am fully aware how terrifying it can be (to some) to side or even give a hint of agreement
with someone with a minority view, but to over react with a personal attack in order to show
no one thinks you agree with me is to be expected when you dare to stand up for your beliefs

razark · 09-09-11, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

However this morality issue has noting to do with your position in the eyes
of God.

I can agree with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

All mans sins require blood atonement. In other words to be forgiven
requires a sin offering of blood sacrifice.

Why? Why does god require a sacrifice? He created the rules, he's all powerful. Why does he require a man's horrific torture and death instead of just forgiving people? If he truly is all powerful, why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Now, to escape the demand God has on all mankind to pay
a sin debt that no man can pay

Why is there some sort of "debt" to be paid in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

God sacrificed his only begotten son...
Christs full payment...

Again, why was this necessary?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

We are all born into a bad situation, no matter how you slice it or dice it
it a totally no win - apart from Christ.

So god set up an evil world, drops us into it, and threatens to torture us forever if we don't believe in him... but lovingly sent a man to a bloody death to save us?

ZeeWolf · 09-09-11, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Just let it go. People like that are sold on their ideas and there's no changing them.

That's not true I changed my view. As a matter of fact men change their
views all the time concerning things that don't affect their income. And on
the other hand if changing their view meant earning more money and a
show of success many have no problem changing their views. Isn't that
the modern tactic today for those who have no true core beliefs. Do what
ever it takes, say and think what ever takes.
Take a view at those who represent us in Government. Wouldn't it be a
horrible thought to think they actually do represent us.

ZeeWolf · 09-09-11, 08:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

However this morality issue has noting to do with your position in the eyes
of God.

I can agree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

All mans sins require blood atonement. In other words to be forgiven
requires a sin offering of blood sacrifice.

Why? Why does god require a sacrifice? He created the rules, he's all powerful.
Why does he require a man's horrific torture and death instead of just forgiving people? If he truly is all powerful, why?

Well if I was God that is what I would do. But a time will come when you will
appreciate a God that man can not fully know or comprehend. Could you imagine for example in stead of sixty six books
of the bible there where sixty six trillion books. God has hidden so much from us but enough for guys like me to
comprehend his plan of salvation and that in it self speaks volumes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Now, to escape the demand God has on all mankind to pay
a sin debt that no man can pay

Why is there some sort of "debt" to be paid in the first place?
Adam in the garden of Eden sinned. And therefore was proof to mankind
man could not be obedient to even a single command no matter the environment. God knew this from the
beginning but God was after the heart of man. Creating Adam with a free will meant God wanted man to worship
him from the core of his heart. And as you read the account you see that that was not going to be easy.
Adam turned on God and Eve in a drop of
hat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

God sacrificed his only begotten son...
Christs full payment...

Again, why was this necessary?

It was the greatest expression of love God could do to show man. And
man could never save himself or appreciate the sacrifice until after the fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

We are all born into a bad situation, no matter how you slice it or dice it
it a totally no win - apart from Christ.

So god set up an evil world, drops us into it, and threatens to torture us forever if we don't believe in him... but lovingly sent a man to a bloody death to save us?

Hell was never intended for mankind. It was set up for Satan and his Angels
who broke in open rebellion in heaven. Angels where created to live forever
never to die. And God never offered them forgiveness.
To angels they where cast down forever to man he was cast out but with an a single option - Christ Jesus.

MH · 09-09-11, 08:44 PM

ZeeWolf · 09-09-11, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

This one!

razark · 09-09-11, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

God has hidden so much from us but enough for guys like me to
comprehend his plan of salvation and that in it self speaks volumes.

Uh huh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Adam in the garden of Eden sinned.
man could not be obedient to even a single command
Adam turned on God

What was the sin of Adam in the Garden? He ate from the tree that god told him not to eat from. This was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Before eating from this tree, Adam could not know good from evil, therefore he could not know that disobeying was wrong. Adam could not know he was sinning.

Also, why does Adam disobeying god have anything to do with me? If Adam sinned (which he could not have, because he could not knowingly choose between good and evil), Adam is responsible. If I rob a bank, my children will not go to jail. If my grandfather committed murder, I am not put on trial. Holding someone else responsible for the transgressions of another is immoral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

It was the greatest expression of love God could do to show man. And
man could never save himself or appreciate the sacrifice until after the fact.

The greatest expression would have just been to forgive, instead of demanding a bloody death for someone. Substitutionary atonement is immoral, as well. The crucifixion was punishing one person for someone else's crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Hell was never intended for mankind. It was set up for Satan and his Angels
who broke in open rebellion in heaven.

So now we finally get to why hell is needed. It's for the fallen angels. So why does god send people there?

August · 09-09-11, 09:40 PM

ZeeWolf · 09-09-11, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Boy I really care - honest!

ZeeWolf · 09-09-11, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

Uh huh.

Holding someone else responsible for the transgressions of another is immoral.

Could you tell me your bases for your morality?

August · 09-09-11, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Boy I really care - honest!

You ought to.

razark · 09-09-11, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Could you tell me your bases for your morality?

My personal basis for morality, or the origins of human morality in general?

Personally, empathy for other beings, along with the teachings of my parents and other respected members of society.

In general, evolution and learned behavior from emerging society.

I'm not personally well versed on the subject, but it's on my list of things to look into.

ZeeWolf · 09-09-11, 10:40 PM

Could you tell me your bases for your morality?

razark · 09-09-11, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Could you tell me your bases for your morality?

I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

Personally, empathy for other beings, along with the teachings of my parents and other respected members of society.

09-09-11, 07:52 PM	#91
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Just let it go. People like that are sold on their ideas and there's no changing them. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

09-09-11, 09:40 PM	#99
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,258 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	__________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

09-09-11, 08:41 PM	#95
ZeeWolf Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Great NorthWest Posts: 1,724 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 1	Quote: Originally Posted by ZeeWolf However this morality issue has noting to do with your position in the eyes of God. I can agree with that. Quote: Originally Posted by ZeeWolf All mans sins require blood atonement. In other words to be forgiven requires a sin offering of blood sacrifice. Why? Why does god require a sacrifice? He created the rules, he's all powerful. Why does he require a man's horrific torture and death instead of just forgiving people? If he truly is all powerful, why? Well if I was God that is what I would do. But a time will come when you will appreciate a God that man can not fully know or comprehend. Could you imagine for example in stead of sixty six books of the bible there where sixty six trillion books. God has hidden so much from us but enough for guys like me to comprehend his plan of salvation and that in it self speaks volumes. Quote: Originally Posted by ZeeWolf Now, to escape the demand God has on all mankind to pay a sin debt that no man can pay Why is there some sort of "debt" to be paid in the first place? Adam in the garden of Eden sinned. And therefore was proof to mankind man could not be obedient to even a single command no matter the environment. God knew this from the beginning but God was after the heart of man. Creating Adam with a free will meant God wanted man to worship him from the core of his heart. And as you read the account you see that that was not going to be easy. Adam turned on God and Eve in a drop of hat. Quote: Originally Posted by ZeeWolf God sacrificed his only begotten son... Christs full payment... Again, why was this necessary? It was the greatest expression of love God could do to show man. And man could never save himself or appreciate the sacrifice until after the fact. Quote: Originally Posted by ZeeWolf We are all born into a bad situation, no matter how you slice it or dice it it a totally no win - apart from Christ. So god set up an evil world, drops us into it, and threatens to torture us forever if we don't believe in him... but lovingly sent a man to a bloody death to save us? Hell was never intended for mankind. It was set up for Satan and his Angels who broke in open rebellion in heaven. Angels where created to live forever never to die. And God never offered them forgiveness. To angels they where cast down forever to man he was cast out but with an a single option - Christ Jesus.

09-09-11, 08:44 PM	#96
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0

09-09-11, 10:40 PM	#104
ZeeWolf Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Great NorthWest Posts: 1,724 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 1	Could you tell me your bases for your morality?