In Immigrant Areas, a Culture Clash Over Gay Marriage

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

That's because peace dose not come from religion nor the heart of man. So
stop wasting your time looking for one. But, there is one who gives man
peace. Peace with God and only one way to enter the Kingdom of God and
that is through Christ Jesus. All the other ways are counterfeits.

I get to repeat myself. "I suppose you would believe the five billion or so people who are not Christians will all burn in hell for not seeing the true God. Well no matter the joke will be on you in the end".

As far as where I put my thrown(throne), it's normally in the WC and has little to do with Jesus. But for an answer you may understand, I'll put it above until the Christian God earns my respect by examples of rational behavior and goodwill. Those are traits I admire and respect. Vindictiveness, unstable temperament, and power are a terrible combination worthy of no ones fealty. And if God is omnipotent, why does he need earthly humans to do his will? He doesn't and that shows the conceit of the overly pious. Lead your life as you believe fit and let others do the same. God can punish them without your help.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Ive never had an interest with "gay" but a revolting hatred for the behavior I saw on the TV program "To Catch a Predator" hosted by Chris Hansen.

I saw that too! I loved the part where he discovered he could hide from the Predator's heat vision by covering him self in mud.

... never knew the Alien was gay though...

[Gerald]

... never knew the Alien was gay though...

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I get to repeat myself. "I suppose you would believe the five billion or so people who are not Christians will all burn in hell for not seeing the true God. Well no matter the joke will be on you in the end".

As far as where I put my thrown(throne), it's normally in the WC and has little to do with Jesus. But for an answer you may understand, I'll put it above until the Christian God earns my respect by examples of rational behavior and goodwill. Those are traits I admire and respect. Vindictiveness, unstable temperament, and power are a terrible combination worthy of no ones fealty. And if God is omnipotent, why does he need earthly humans to do his will? He doesn't and that shows the conceit of the overly pious. Lead your life as you believe fit and let others do the same. God can punish them without your help.

Don't worry eat drink and be marry for someone as holy and perfect as you
are should just realize if you are wrong (a slight incontestable chance) you
will only get what you deserve - now do you understand way there is a need for hell?

[razark]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

now do you understand way there is a need for hell?

I don't understand why there needs to be a hell. Can you explain it to me?

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by razark

I don't understand why there needs to be a hell. Can you explain it to me?

What do you beleive concerning God?

[razark]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

What do you beleive concerning God?

Gods in general:
I have not been convinced that any of the gods that have been described to me exist.

Specifically the god of the bible:
If he exists and he and his actions are as described in the book, I find him to be an immoral creature, deserving neither respect or worship. The existence of hell is part of why I hold that view. Even if I were to take the framework of the creation/fall/redemption story as true, I still see no need for it, other than as a threat to coerce people to conform to the god's commands.

[Dowly]

The whole concept of Heaven and Hell is contradicting to what God is supposed to
be: the good guy.

"Don't do as I say? Fine, you'll burn in hell for eternity!"

Sounds like a great guy!

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Don't worry eat drink and be marry for someone as holy and perfect as you
are should just realize if you are wrong (a slight incontestable chance) you
will only get what you deserve - now do you understand way there is a need for hell?

Oh I understand that perfectly. There is no need for Heaven without Hell, no need for Hell without Heaven. In that sense they are inseparable as two sides of the same coin and give argument for God being one with the Devil.

And, I'm quite a good step from being holy and perfect which I never claimed to be, although I find my world view to be more Christian than yours in practice.

We all make our own Hell to our own needs which is usually punishment enough for most of us. Eternity? I'll cease to be when I die is all there is. The rest is wishful thinking for something greater and more noble I will not buy into as a leap of faith. A very convenient way to sidestep rational thinking making believers impossible to argue with eventually. I hope you find you're heaven after all.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by razark

Gods in general:

Could have been a better movie, but Stephen Lang was good as Jackson.

Wut?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Dowly

The whole concept of Heaven and Hell is contradicting to what God is supposed to
be: the good guy.

"Don't do as I say? Fine, you'll burn in hell for eternity!"

Sounds like a great guy!

The concept seems to work well for guys like ZeeWolf...
Seems it scared the hell out of him just like some peasant in 14th century...

In Judaism there is no concept of hell.
It was added later to keep people in line.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by razark

Gods in general:
I have not been convinced that any of the gods that have been described to me exist.

Specifically the god of the bible:
If he exists and he and his actions are as described in the book, I find him to be an immoral creature, deserving neither respect or worship. The existence of hell is part of why I hold that view. Even if I were to take the framework of the creation/fall/redemption story as true, I still see no need for it, other than as a threat to coerce people to conform to the god's commands.

Ok, If (I am assuming) you read the bible and you have considered what
was said and then decide to reject it then it's all said and done - what
can I say?
But what got the hook in me was what I read about the disciples. At first
after the death of Christ they hid in fear of the Jews. But once Christ
appeared to them they no longer feared the Jews a went out and faced
the worst the Jews could do to them even death. To simply say they saw
Jesus after his death on the cross and that he in fact rose from the dead.
Now you have to understand if they would have just went underground
so-to-speak the Jews would have let them live. But they went boldly out
to face a certain death from those who hated and had a blood lust for
Christ and those who followed him.
And then the more I studied the more I became convinced of the historical
authenticity of the accounts given in the bible. Now, there is no looking
back for me.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by MH

The concept seems to work well for guys like ZeeWolf...
Seems it scared the hell out of him just like some peasant in 14th century...

Well, yes, it works in doing just that.

In Judaism there is no concept of hell.
It was added later to keep people in line.

Aye, right you are.

[Sailor Steve]

Unfortunately your knowledge of the way the Bible was written is limited. When it says "Jews" it is referring specifically to the Pharisees, the religious leaders. The common Jew knew nothing of Jesus, and didn't care one way or the other. There were many men hailed as "Messiah" at the time, and they all had their friends and their enemies.

I find it interesting that you never talk about Christ or your faith until people challenge your undeniable animosity for certain groups and your tendency to connect with people who are known for their hatred and anger. Then you fall back on "I'm a Christian and you're going to burn in hell!" I've never seen you once in these forums actually try to save people from hell, or to convince them the Christ is "The Way."

[razark]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Ok, If (I am assuming) you read the bible and you have considered what
was said and then decide to reject it then it's all said and done - what
can I say?

My view is that I do not choose what to believe and disbelieve. I can no more choose to believe the bible than I can choose to believe that water is not wet, or choose to believe the sky is green. Belief is the result of your brain processing the information it has available. I will not say that I have read every word of the bible, but I have read large portions of it, and find it to resemble more an ancient society's world view and less an authoritative book of history, science, morality, or any other subject. In addition, I have read other accounts of history and the history of the bible, and that further removed the bible from the category of authoritative literature.

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

And then the more I studied the more I became convinced of the historical
authenticity of the accounts given in the bible.

And the more I learned about the bible, the less I was able to consider it accurate.


However, none of that addresses the question. Even if we take every bit of the bible as true, why is hell necessary? The only thing I can see it being needed for is to coerce people to comply. If god is omnipotent/omniscient, he should be able to achieve his ends without the need of eternal torture. If he is omnibenevolent, eternal torture (or even non-eternal torture) should go against his very nature.