Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops)

[CB..]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Ahhhhhh

So you are the guy who had me sitting for days on SH2 wondering how the hell I was detected. :rotfl: :rotfl:

What mod was it?

I tried a few but then just went to wolfpack leauge (forgot the proper name) for a short while to experience the mp which was great with those stat missions.

no i was the guy who had you wondering how the heck it was that you managed to SURVIVE being detected

the mod was called DES (various versions from DES1 thru to DES5 as it grew over time and i found new elements to work on)

the side effect of having all the detection done (back here in SH3) by long range DD's is that the close range attacking DD's are more likely to mask your presense with their screws as they maneuver for DC drops---hence creating an additional problem for the long range "monitoring" DD's

it's all about creating a dynamic ever changing scenario for the DD's to work with (and the player too)

[Vader 1]

CB you said it best. This game/sim what ever ,is not the real thing its an attempt to recreate a atmosphere, a sense of how the Uboats and DD etc interacted . By sticking to certain setting under the shield of"realistic values" we lose the intent of what CB is trying to do .
Carry on your great work to refine the games until it feels right (ps your TDC mod and UZO mod for SH2 still rock)
Vader

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Vader 1

CB you said it best. This game/sim what ever ,is not the real thing its an attempt to recreate a atmosphere, a sense of how the Uboats and DD etc interacted . By sticking to certain setting under the shield of"realistic values" we lose the intent of what CB is trying to do .
Carry on your great work to refine the games until it feels right (ps your TDC mod and UZO mod for SH2 still rock)
Vader

Cheers vader!!

[CB..]

Regarding your testing...
I can only presume that no one is using a default version of SHIII (1.4b)

ahem--by a strange co-incidence i would fullfill that particular requierment-- i'm generally speaking allergic to any mod with the word real in it

[gouldjg]

@CB

I like your style of realism,

Much like you, I go for playability/realism unless one too far detracts from the other.

You worded it well though,

The feel of real life randomnes and dynamics is far better than a battle of absolutes.

@Der Teddy,

A massive thanks for that info, although I cannot make head to tail with regard to the calculations (will get the boys in the lab tommorow to have a good scan) it does provide some good insights into the mechanics.

With regards to complete and scientific testings,

I agree to some point yet this has been discussed before, The more different routes that are explored right now whilst we are learning seem to be providing the info that each of us need.

There is no way I am going to sit on this like i am being paid to do it. At 0800 you will test with this setting etc etc,

I don't do dicipline

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Later on I think it would be upto a big mod group to do this.

All us tester here have different perspectives at the moment though I am ready to drop mine, should I favour more anothers.

Still too early to talk about beta's

Maybe You and tonnage mod can whip something up

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by CB..

ahem--by a strange co-incidence i would fullfill that particular requierment-- i'm generally speaking allergic to any mod with the word real in it

Im using default sensitivty values on the passive sonar, but i ramped up ALL passive ranges to 8500. Im using this as an average range since its a middle road number between the low end passive and high end passive.



@ gouldjg

Just reran a few tests, at 100 meters, didnt much, if any difference at all.

Im gonan go back and reread some of CBs posts and start using some of his settings i think.

[CB..]

as long as were not competeing with each other and as long as were sharing the results we cannot go that far wrong in the end---only reason i'm here is that i'm utterly fed up playing a dang screen saver--same as every one else-problesm with the DD's--the changes i make are based on the information as shared by every-one else and i hope that is the spirit of the thread

if you keep pouring water into a dry well long enough the bucket will float to the surface--and in that bucket will be the answer--- LOL- bit airy fairy--but that's precisely what's happening--
every idea suggested and tried here pours another gallon of water into the well!
and lets face it we can at least SEE the bucket now!!

[Marhkimov]

Originally Posted by CB..

as long as were not competeing with each other and as long as were sharing the results we cannot go that far wrong in the end---only reason i'm here is that i'm utterly fed up playing a dang screen saver--same as every one else-problesm with the DD's--the changes i make are based on the information as shared by every-one else and i hope that is the spirit of the thread

I don't get it... Are we competing against each other?

[CB..]

Originally Posted by marhkimov

I don't get it... Are we competing against each other?

that's i suppose entirely a matter of personal choice--

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Ahhhhhh

So you are the guy who had me sitting for days on SH2 wondering how the hell I was detected. :rotfl: :rotfl:

What mod was it?

I tried a few but then just went to wolfpack leauge (forgot the proper name) for a short while to experience the mp which was great with those stat missions.

He made the DES5 Mod, it was one of the best mods done for SH2, this mod introduce a big chnage into Dds behavior.
Adding Depth Charges Lethal Radius Mod, to DES5 V2, i obtain those 30 hours Dds hunting as in real life.
one time i was enforcd to surface out of oxigen and batteries.

What can i say... just wonderful

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

This link has the SHIII u-boat sensor formulas. I would presume that they are also the same formulas used for the Escort AI...

Regarding your testing...
I can only presume that no one is using a default version of SHIII (1.4b) .............

A default version (1.4b) is needed to ensure that there is no other factor distorting the results.

Also time compression will play a part in how the results play out. The Avon Lady showed this to great effect when he posted his thread regarding at what distances your crew would ‘see’ an enemy ship at various time compressions.

I think that you are starting to use the same test missions, another very important test factor.

I will not be visiting this thread again as I am too busy checking the number of rivets on the torpedos.

Thanks for the formulas....... now we need to understand them

About a clear V1.4b installation i think so it is hard, i am not ready to back to a installation with lack of lot of things, and no body uses.

Thanks a lot for time compression tip, i wasnt at know of that experiment from "Ubbermom", can you give us the link to the topic plese ?

About to use the same missions, we are near to that, all we here are using near to same mission but not a only one, a set of them, plus there are testing on campaigns.

About the rivets ....... plese stops that

Many thanks.

Originally Posted by Vader 1

CB you said it best. This game/sim what ever ,is not the real thing its an attempt to recreate a atmosphere, a sense of how the Uboats and DD etc interacted . By sticking to certain setting under the shield of"realistic values" we lose the intent of what CB is trying to do .
Carry on your great work to refine the games until it feels right (ps your TDC mod and UZO mod for SH2 still rock)
Vader

Completelly agree. It is not important if the setting we input are historical or not, the important is to obtain a similar to real and beliable behavior, recreating how the subs and DDs interact.

[Ducimus]

Im not competing.

Everyone seemed focused on the active sonar's.

So i decided to focus on the passive, that and im hoping in passive we can increase detection.



I'm | THIS | close to just zeroing out the wave factor, and punching a big hole in the min distance on passive to make silent working. Quick and easy. Infact im going to test that in normal and stormy weather.

Only problem is theres no variaion in play and theoriticaly DD's will have unrealistic passive sonar ablities in inclimate weather.. BUT... at least they'll resond.

You can make them detect you at 3K, but the instant you toss in some weather with some wave factor, they practially have to step on you to find you. Realistic maybe, but not very fun.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by marhkimov

I don't get it... Are we competing against each other?

The first to release a mod will win a non exploded helgedog ......

:rotfl:

No Marhkimov, we are working together and sharing info to break the secrets of DDs detection.

And we had a wonderful job here.....

What later ? I dont know, may be each one made a own adaptation to own installation. :hmm:

Personally i preffer a good tutorial including TT tols and teaching people how to make the changes. :hmm:

Or may be we can make a pack, with files from every one behavior, one hard with far detections, one soft with short detections, one medium...... put all in a pack and share it with the subcommunity. :hmm:

Any way everybody can read this topic and learn what we was discovering, to make the modification is easy, with a notepad and TT Tool it is so easy and every body can reach to do it. :hmm:

[gouldjg]

Originally Posted by CB..

that's i suppose entirely a matter of personal choice--

:rotfl: :rotfl:

There is no competition here (gouldjg packs all his files up ready for distribution to go and claim kudos kudos) :rotfl:

Im with CB

I am going to have a set of settings that can compliment a new damage model I am considering in the nearfuture (depending on what the Tonnage mod is like for me).

That is going to take some time though cos I have to strip the hitpoints etc etc of almost everything that moves, shoots, or is shot.

At the very most I am going to pack it all up and say "look this is what I have set and it gives me a good game"

"I cannot guarentee that this is going to work for everyone so installer beware"

"If you like to make adjustments please read the DD thread and hopefully a small wiki from all those whom have been involved which all though is not of a dev team quality, all worked hard in their own rights"


That is it period, no shame, no secrets, no bragging rights.

I do not think any one of us want to shout out any total sensor mod that claims to have cracked it all, cos we all know different.

If however someone wants to recalculate every varible and make an absolute average that works with all version of the game, then good luck to him/her. man, they deserve the kudos to even contimplate the task.

I just simply do not have the patience anymore and work is getting to become a strain over this xmas period.

Why do people always have accidents at xmas and tie me up all day on the phone

I thought it might have been easier in the earlier days but after so much discussion I think it is best to look at it as CB does.

Team Effort but get your own game fixed in the process.

[Col7777]

I'm same as CB, just using the 1.4 version, no RUB just Serg's U-boats and a couple of others.

I've just played the Happy Hour mission, I got toasted, I was not doing too bad but a couple of frigates hounded me.
I thought at one point I was being clever, I hid in the wake of a merchant but he knew I was there, the merchie picked up speed then they got me, but thanks to CB, again it was great fun.

[gouldjg]

Originally Posted by Col7777

I'm same as CB, just using the 1.4 version, no RUB just Serg's U-boats and a couple of others.

I've just played the Happy Hour mission, I got toasted, I was not doing too bad but a couple of frigates hounded me.
I thought at one point I was being clever, I hid in the wake of a merchant but he knew I was there, the merchie picked up speed then they got me, but thanks to CB, again it was great fun.

Happytimes ?
Hiding in wakes ?
They got you ?

Man you must be cr*p lol lol only joking

It tickled me reading it, that does sound like fun compared to the ammount of times we used to walk all over the Happytimes,

CB, you must be onto something there