Can this game issue be fixed.

Armistead · 08-03-11, 03:14 PM

It's easy to see how they change speed if you have contacts on, even without. I can get speed with 3 minute rule using radar or scope visuals. The easiest way to test it is just to cut auto target on and you get a constant speed through the scope.

It's always been obvious a group will slow down greatly once you're found out, with cams on you can see fast to medium to slow ratings. This is much different than the small zig legs they make when they go into evasion mode, not to be confused with possible zig or speed changes from waypoint settings.

The main group will hold the set speed given to that group, they only slow and go into evasion mode when they know your sub is there. The main group, not the escorts will hold that set speed. If a ship is set to act as an escort, it can roam around the group on escort duty changing speed.

If you want to test it, just use auto target, and watch the speed changes during small the small evasion zigs, they never average over 2kts, usually 1kt.

Take my recent attack on the Center Force. I stayed out of range, speed was 22 knots. I needed to do a end around, but group was going too fast, so I simply slipped into it's radar range to get found out. The group slowed down to 14kts and started zigging. I sped away and got out of radar range, DD's came, but I was long gone before they reached where radar had me. Now it was easy to do a end around, I had the group slower than I. Historically the group would have increased speed and left me further behind. I find this a terrible flaw, because in the end I can make most groups slow down and pull off my attack.

Sometimes once a group clears you, I assume contact has been lost over a set time limit, they increase back up to the set waypoint speed.

It's possible because the zig legs are so short, that somehow limits overall speed. The bigger issue for me is the short zig legs. They're so short, it's more like the ship is just helming left and right. Zigs are supposed to leave you way off track, but that just doesn't happen in the game. If you could increase the zig leg to even 1000 yards, that would help greatly.

To me this is the biggest cheat in the game, get found out to slow a group down, I know many that do it.

TorpX · 08-03-11, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Take my recent attack on the Center Force. I stayed out of range, speed was 22 knots. I needed to do a end around, but group was going too fast, so I simply slipped into it's radar range to get found out. The group slowed down to 14kts and started zigging. I sped away and got out of radar range, DD's came, but I was long gone before they reached where radar had me. Now it was easy to do a end around, I had the group slower than I. Historically the group would have increased speed and left me further behind. I find this a terrible flaw, because in the end I can make most groups slow down and pull off my attack.

Do they turn away, or follow the same base course?

When I played SHCE, they would turn away and leave me behind. I could not tell what their speed was, but it didn't really matter, as I could not follow anyway.

Quote:

It's possible because the zig legs are so short, that somehow limits overall speed. The bigger issue for me is the short zig legs. They're so short, it's more like the ship is just helming left and right. Zigs are supposed to leave you way off track, but that just doesn't happen in the game. If you could increase the zig leg to even 1000 yards, that would help greatly.

I have seen them do the constant weaving thing, but as I was on the surface and firing shells at them, it sort of made sense. I'm guessing there is no way to change the legs of the zig pattern, though.

Quote:

To me this is the biggest cheat in the game, get found out to slow a group down, I know many that do it.

The game does seem to be MAJOR FUBAR in a lot of ways.

Maybe Ducimus can enlighten us.

Armistead · 08-03-11, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

Do they turn away, or follow the same base course?

When I played SHCE, they would turn away and leave me behind. I could not tell what their speed was, but it didn't really matter, as I could not follow anyway.

I have seen them do the constant weaving thing, but as I was on the surface and firing shells at them, it sort of made sense. I'm guessing there is no way to change the legs of the zig pattern, though.

The game does seem to be MAJOR FUBAR in a lot of ways.

Maybe Ducimus can enlighten us.

That's the problem with the small zig legs, they hold to that pattern and since the zigs are so small, they basically stay on the same course, you seldom have to adjust your track as they stay on the same basic course.
The only time they ever turn away is to dodge a torp. For me this happens most the time, but I've also seen some TF hold or increase speed, that's realistic. Something controls these factors.

Strange, convoys often tend more to break up and ships head off in different directions, but eventually regroup.

Could also be more of a RSRD thing, I don't recall stock or other supermods without it.

max-peck · 08-03-11, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

It's possible because the zig legs are so short, that somehow limits overall speed. The bigger issue for me is the short zig legs. They're so short, it's more like the ship is just helming left and right.

Which is exactly what they are doing.

They are not zig zagging, but constant helming.

And the continual rudder change seems to be enough to slow their speed to approx two thirds of what they were doing before.

I share your frustration.

I used to be so careful not being detected before an attack, until I realised that their reduced average speed along the base course (that they still seem to follow) in many cases has made my subsequent attack easier

Armistead · 08-03-11, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max-peck

Which is exactly what they are doing.

They are not zig zagging, but constant helming.

And the continual rudder change seems to be enough to slow their speed to approx two thirds of what they were doing before.

I share your frustration.

I used to be so careful not being detected before an attack, until I realised that their reduced average speed along the base course (that they still seem to follow) in many cases has made my subsequent attack easier

I agree on the constant helming, be much better with long zig legs. However, the continual rudder speed never seems to change more than a knot or two between the lil zigs, I'm talking about the big speed decrease before that.

NorthBeach · 08-03-11, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

To me this is the biggest cheat in the game, get found out to slow a group down, I know many that do it.

Yup, I'm guilty. I've come to call it "Trolling". Once I found that they had Aqua-Brembo brakes I started to dash in to scare up a response. Dash back out and do an end around. Then do an aft-Cromwell(ish) attack (wet if day, dry at night). Escape to the edge of their radar. Pop up and repeat.

It's fun and all, but, not very realistic.

08-03-11, 03:14 PM	#1
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	It's easy to see how they change speed if you have contacts on, even without. I can get speed with 3 minute rule using radar or scope visuals. The easiest way to test it is just to cut auto target on and you get a constant speed through the scope. It's always been obvious a group will slow down greatly once you're found out, with cams on you can see fast to medium to slow ratings. This is much different than the small zig legs they make when they go into evasion mode, not to be confused with possible zig or speed changes from waypoint settings. The main group will hold the set speed given to that group, they only slow and go into evasion mode when they know your sub is there. The main group, not the escorts will hold that set speed. If a ship is set to act as an escort, it can roam around the group on escort duty changing speed. If you want to test it, just use auto target, and watch the speed changes during small the small evasion zigs, they never average over 2kts, usually 1kt. Take my recent attack on the Center Force. I stayed out of range, speed was 22 knots. I needed to do a end around, but group was going too fast, so I simply slipped into it's radar range to get found out. The group slowed down to 14kts and started zigging. I sped away and got out of radar range, DD's came, but I was long gone before they reached where radar had me. Now it was easy to do a end around, I had the group slower than I. Historically the group would have increased speed and left me further behind. I find this a terrible flaw, because in the end I can make most groups slow down and pull off my attack. Sometimes once a group clears you, I assume contact has been lost over a set time limit, they increase back up to the set waypoint speed. It's possible because the zig legs are so short, that somehow limits overall speed. The bigger issue for me is the short zig legs. They're so short, it's more like the ship is just helming left and right. Zigs are supposed to leave you way off track, but that just doesn't happen in the game. If you could increase the zig leg to even 1000 yards, that would help greatly. To me this is the biggest cheat in the game, get found out to slow a group down, I know many that do it.