Excerpt from "Silent Sea" about Tankers - Page 2

gi_dan2987 · 07-11-11, 12:29 AM

Every ship has some amount of armored plating set to a certain depth below the waterline. Some more than others both in thickness and depth. Your fish with impact fuses need to be below that armored jacket to be truly effective. The SH4 user manual comes with all that information, and how many evenly spaced torps it should take to sink various types of ships. It is effective and usually works to specs if they're deep enough and you've got enough hits according to tonnage and type. One thing I don't agree with is a 4"/50 Cal. Deck gun taking 90 seconds to reload

specifications put the test fire rate at 8-9 shells per minute, or a shot every 5-6 seconds or so. I can understand bad weather increasing that time somewhat, but if it's calm enough to man the guns, then it's calm enough to keep up with those fire rates. Sure I can see ships taking multiple hits from AP shells at the waterline and still staying above water, but it shouldn't take no 100 shells to put down a fishing trawler

IMO there is some tweaking that needs to be done with these issues in RFB 1.4

Sailor Steve · 07-11-11, 01:07 AM

1. You're responding directly to a post made three years ago. This can be confusing unless you announce it first. I started to read the thread avidly and was thrown off when I saw I had posted in it all that time ago.

2. Since you're new, I'll explain the history of the deck gun problem in Silent Hunter. That discussion started late in 2005 when Beery created his Real U-Boat Mod, the first supermod for SH3, and picked up again in 2007 when he started Real Fleet Boat for SH4. The problem is that the game doesn't take into account diminished reload speeds with increasing weather, nor does it account for the time involved in targetting. Beery read every piece of information he could find and concluded that on average the guns were fired every ninety seconds or so in actual combat. This was confirmed by Der Teddy Bar when he started the work expanding RUB into NYGM and then took over development on RFB.

Yes, they could be reloaded and fired in four-to-six seconds, but in the Second World War no guns were gyro-stabilized. Gunners had to fire "on-the-roll", just as they had in the sailing-ship era. This involves waiting until the hull is, in the gunner's estimation, perfectly level. Prior to the war US battleships had what they called the "stable element", a gyro-computer which kept the guns from firing until the ship was level, but this applied to battleships only. Immediately post-war a gyro system was developed that synchronized the fire-control periscopes and gun barrels so they could be fired at any time and any angle, but submarines had long since done away with the deck gun and never had an actual gun fire control center anyway. Also the submarine is a very poor gun platform.

In calm seas the guns could be fired quickly, but the ocean is rarely calm and the gunner has to wait. I don't like waiting that long either, and in SH3 have mine adjusted to fire every 15 seconds for the 8.8cm and 20 seconds for the 10.5cm guns, roughly equivalent to the 3.5" and 4" guns in SH4. Then again I rarely use the gun if the weather is anything but calm.

Daniel Prates · 07-11-11, 09:37 AM

Of course, everything said below will only make any in-game difference if the player is using some real-damage mod. Stock and TMO, as I understand it, do not depict specific softspots in the ships and damage is calculated bluntly.

TorpX · 07-13-11, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Sure I can see ships taking multiple hits from AP shells at the waterline and still staying above water, but it shouldn't take no 100 shells to put down a fishing trawler IMO there is some tweaking that needs to be done with these issues in RFB 1.4

I play RFB 2.0 and I consider it to be too easy to sink things with the deck gun (4 inch). Once, the crew of the Tang had a gun duel with a armed yacht. They ran low on ammunition and had to submerge without sinking it. On the other hand, in the game, I was able to chase down and sink a medium sized freighter and sink it with 60 rds. or so.

(BTW, I made the same mistake Sailor did reading the thread from the start as though it was posted recently.)

07-11-11, 01:07 AM	#17
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	1. You're responding directly to a post made three years ago. This can be confusing unless you announce it first. I started to read the thread avidly and was thrown off when I saw I had posted in it all that time ago. 2. Since you're new, I'll explain the history of the deck gun problem in Silent Hunter. That discussion started late in 2005 when Beery created his Real U-Boat Mod, the first supermod for SH3, and picked up again in 2007 when he started Real Fleet Boat for SH4. The problem is that the game doesn't take into account diminished reload speeds with increasing weather, nor does it account for the time involved in targetting. Beery read every piece of information he could find and concluded that on average the guns were fired every ninety seconds or so in actual combat. This was confirmed by Der Teddy Bar when he started the work expanding RUB into NYGM and then took over development on RFB. Yes, they could be reloaded and fired in four-to-six seconds, but in the Second World War no guns were gyro-stabilized. Gunners had to fire "on-the-roll", just as they had in the sailing-ship era. This involves waiting until the hull is, in the gunner's estimation, perfectly level. Prior to the war US battleships had what they called the "stable element", a gyro-computer which kept the guns from firing until the ship was level, but this applied to battleships only. Immediately post-war a gyro system was developed that synchronized the fire-control periscopes and gun barrels so they could be fired at any time and any angle, but submarines had long since done away with the deck gun and never had an actual gun fire control center anyway. Also the submarine is a very poor gun platform. In calm seas the guns could be fired quickly, but the ocean is rarely calm and the gunner has to wait. I don't like waiting that long either, and in SH3 have mine adjusted to fire every 15 seconds for the 8.8cm and 20 seconds for the 10.5cm guns, roughly equivalent to the 3.5" and 4" guns in SH4. Then again I rarely use the gun if the weather is anything but calm. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-11-11, 12:29 AM	#16
gi_dan2987 Weps Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Every ship has some amount of armored plating set to a certain depth below the waterline. Some more than others both in thickness and depth. Your fish with impact fuses need to be below that armored jacket to be truly effective. The SH4 user manual comes with all that information, and how many evenly spaced torps it should take to sink various types of ships. It is effective and usually works to specs if they're deep enough and you've got enough hits according to tonnage and type. One thing I don't agree with is a 4"/50 Cal. Deck gun taking 90 seconds to reload specifications put the test fire rate at 8-9 shells per minute, or a shot every 5-6 seconds or so. I can understand bad weather increasing that time somewhat, but if it's calm enough to man the guns, then it's calm enough to keep up with those fire rates. Sure I can see ships taking multiple hits from AP shells at the waterline and still staying above water, but it shouldn't take no 100 shells to put down a fishing trawler IMO there is some tweaking that needs to be done with these issues in RFB 1.4

07-11-11, 09:37 AM	#18
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Of course, everything said below will only make any in-game difference if the player is using some real-damage mod. Stock and TMO, as I understand it, do not depict specific softspots in the ships and damage is calculated bluntly.