Gaza aid flotilla: Irish crew accuse Israel of sabotage

[MH]

Originally Posted by yubba

At least I don't beleive, Isreal has trained Dolphins with cutting torches on their backs, cutting props off of pleasure craft. Sorry about for the late responce I forget how hot it must get in that basement. Yes I seen pics of the Irish tubs, if they would have spent less money on whiskey and more on their boats, they wouldn't have such problems and I can tell you that because I'm a professionial drunk which you have stated over and over in this thread which I'm cool with, In my expert opinion they were drunk and ran over their lines. Unless you can prove Isreal has invisible helicopters and frogman Oh by the way 100 empty whiskey bottles and one tin of tuna doesn't constitute Humanitarian aide.

........but.... but Israelis have mosad train sharks.
Israel must keep bad ass image .... you know.

[yubba]

the sharks worry me

[MH]

Originally Posted by yubba

the sharks worry me

[yubba]

Nice pic, wonder what that rig cost, farewell and a due to you fair spainish maiden, farewell and a due to us all.

[Penguin]

an (illusional) attempt to get back on the tracks:

Originally Posted by MH

It is interesting question.
If the reporter was giving directions then probably it could be offence.

We were discussing this topic yesterday, one argument was that you're aiding in the moment when you hold the door open for the robbers. Another argument was that the reporter does something illegal when he knows of the robbery in advance and doesn't inform the authorities. I didn't share this view, as the protection of the informer is important for a trustworthy relationship, otherwise no criminal would ever talk to a reporter.
The press codex says however that you should not inspire people to do something which they would not do on their own - which is not easy to follow, as the presence of a camera alone can inspire the people to do something or change their behavior.
Guess everybody has to make a moral decision, for example getting knowledge of a planned mass murder would in my opinion morally oblige the reporter to inform law enforcement.

I agree with the rest of your statement - except for the holyness of reporters

Originally Posted by MH

You seen this movie l

actually I didn't dare to see it yet, as I had fear to be disappointed. I read much Kishon as a kid, and I had a vivid imagination about how this project would look. Don't know if the movie can transport this, but I should give the movie a chance one day.
The book taught me to have a healthy distrust against public administration and bureaucracy

Originally Posted by Skybird

When abbreviating a past incident as "a Fren ch solution", I just took a verbal shortcut. I do not comment on the background of the action back in NZ,[snip]

OK, I got your statement in the "wrong throat" as the Germans say, but to me this whole Rainbow Warrior action is not a "let's scare the hippies a little" thing, but a stupid Rambo-action that resulted in the killing of a journalist. The people who fought against the French atomic testing in the Pacific have my respect and sympathy - contrary to the participants of the Gaza flotilla.

Originally Posted by Skybird

but just think that to sink the Gaza ships today at night with o crew aboard and still stationed in a harbour is the easiest solution to a critical situation for Israel.

The easiest, but not the smartest. Israel would look as a terrorist state that disrespects international law.
As you cannot delay the flotilla forever. The people on board want the confrontation, so they should get their desired 5 minutes of fame.
I only hope that Israel is this time so smart to approach the flotilla later, when it is inside its coastal waters.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Regarding the press and polticians,. it is a fact that in Europe and Germany today the more left you look the more openly people are antisemitic, while hidden antisemitism is en vogue in all the poltiical spectzrum today.

I agree with the last part. You'll find this strange poison called antisemitism all over the political spectrum, and in all social classes. I also agree that you find antisemitism on the far left antiimperialistic spectrum, but don't forget out of which corner of the political spectrum the "Endlösung" came from. Most percentage of the members of the "worker party" NSDAP were not working-class, but teachers, farmers and civil servants, traditionally conservative/right-wing. I don't deny that there also was certainly a historic connection of the left with antisemitism, after all one should not forget many people changed their red (KPD/SPD) shirt against a brown one. I doubt however that you'll find open antisemitism, or antizionism mixed with old stereotypes of jews, only on the left.

neo-nazi-demonstration:

(yesterday Dresden, today Gaza - this reminds me a little of "today Germany, tomorrow the world", not sure if those guys want to conquer Gaza, lol)

demonstration of a part of the left:


and no, I'm no member of them either

When I find the time I write a little piece about the left and Israel.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Palestinians are respinsible for the chpoices they make. And they democratically elected Hamas into power.

They have a right to make choices. And they have a right to be held responsible for the choices they make.

that's a lesson that was bitterly learned by the Germans

[yubba]

[QUOTE=Vendor;1695438]
Irish activist demonstrates damage to the propeller shaft of the Saoirse.
Well they say a picture is worth a thousand words a bent shaft and they had to cut it out themselves a joke and a hoax, bad skippering and that craft isn't very big so how much humanitarain aid could fit on it, just some bloke trying to score drinks at the local pub

[MH]

The activist are losing momentum it seems.
I suppose they are going through high level of frustration.

Lieberman: Gaza flotilla activists blaming Israel for their own failure

Foreign minister says Israel was behind the Greek ban on departure of ships, claims Greek government understands Israel's needs.

By HaaretzTags: Avigdor LiebermanGaza flotillaGaza aid





Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said Sunday that the Gaza flotilla activists, who had accused Israel of purposely sabotaging their ships, are just trying to place the blame for their failure on Israel.

***8220;The activists are trying to blame someone for their failure ***8211; no doubt they have watched too many James Bond films,***8221; Lieberman told Army Radio in an interview. ***8220;There is an attempt to evade responsibility for their propaganda, as well as a lack of support from countries around the world.***8221;

Lieberman also said that Israel was behind the Greek government***8217;s decision to forbid the flotilla from sailing to the Gaza Strip. ***8220;Things do not just happen on their own,***8221; he maintained, ***8220;the Quartet, the governments of Greece, and Cyprus object to the flotilla, understand the needs of Israel, and are acting effectively.***8221;

However, despite the technical difficulties and the Greek government***8217;s decision to forbid the voyage, the activists on board believe that it is only a matter of time before they leave for the Gaza Strip, declaring Sunday that they intend to set sail on Monday.

The Greek authorities have announced that they will not allow the ships to sail, as they believe the mission is ***8220;too dangerous.***8221; The captain of the American ship, Audacity of Hope, will appear in court on Tuesday where he is to be charged with defying the Greek ban, as well as endangering the lives of the ship***8217;s passengers.

In the aftermath of the captain's arrest, as well as the forced transfer of the ship to a Greek military naval base, the activists held a press conference wherein they blamed Israel for "exporting the siege on Gaza to Greece***8221; and condemned Greece for ***8220;implementing the policies of the Israeli government."

The Middle East Quartet issued a statement on Saturday that pleaded with those interested in transferring humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip to do so "through established channels so that their cargo can be inspected and transferred via established land crossings." The declaration further called on all governments involved to "use their influence to discourage additional flotillas, which risk the safety of their participants and carry the potential for escalation."

.....................

"Exporting Gaza siege to Greece"-LOL
In today world every anarchist or nutcase in Europe can find some legitimate organisation.
If you are leftist you get the bonus of being "human right activist".
30 years ago it could be something like "red brigade".
Nowadays non violent violence is the trend.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I agree with the last part. You'll find this strange poison called antisemitism all over the political spectrum, and in all social classes. I also agree that you find antisemitism on the far left antiimperialistic spectrum, but don't forget out of which corner of the political spectrum the "Endlösung" came from. Most percentage of the members of the "worker party" NSDAP were not working-class, but teachers, farmers and civil servants, traditionally conservative/right-wing. I don't deny that there also was certainly a historic connection of the left with antisemitism, after all one should not forget many people changed their red (KPD/SPD) shirt against a brown one. I doubt however that you'll find open antisemitism, or antizionism mixed with old stereotypes of jews, only on the left.

Good example is the San Francisco circumcision case.
All in the name of "human rights" again-nice wrap for any crap.
"Foreskin Man" lol-who is the dickhead who thought it up.

Circumcision ban comic book shows 'grotesque anti-Semitic imagery,' ADL says

'Monster Mohel' comic book is one of two titles in the 'Foreskin Man' comic book series created by the Male Genital Mutilation Bill group pushing to make male circumcision illegal in San Francisco.







The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) on Friday strongly condemned a comic book created by supporters of an anti-circumcision movement in San Francisco, saying it contained "grotesque anti-Semitic imagery and themes."
The "Monster Mohel" comic book is one of two titles in the "Foreskin Man" comic book series – which was created by the president of the Male Genital Mutilation Bill group and one of the leaders of the anti-circumcision legislation movement, which has succeeded in getting their controversial measure on the November ballot.
An image from the 'Monster Mohel' comic book.

Nancy J. Appel, ADL Associate Regional Director said the book, which features identifiably Orthodox Jewish characters as evil villains, was "disrespectful and deeply offensive."
"This is a sensitive, serious issue where good people can disagree and which the Jewish community feels is an assault on its values and traditions going back thousands of years and centered in the Hebrew Bible," Appel said in a statement.
"It is one thing to debate it, is another thing to degrade it. 'Foreskin Man,' with its grotesque anti-Semitic imagery and themes, reaches a new low and is disrespectful and deeply offensive," she said, adding that " Some of the imagery calls to mind age-old anti-Semitic canards such as the blood libel, the accusation that Jews ritually murder Christian children."
Mohels are those who are specially trained to perform the traditional Jewish male circumcision ceremony.
Supporters of the ban say male circumcision is a form of genital mutilation that is unnecessary, extremely painful and even dangerous. They say parents should not be able to force the decision on their young child.
If the measure passes in November, circumcision would be prohibited among males under the age of 18. The practice would become a misdemeanor offense punishable by a fine of up to $1,000 or up to one year in jail. There would be no religious exemptions.

[the_tyrant]

foreskin man

[Bilge_Rat]

and I see any thread involving Israel bashing remains as popular as ever on the GT.

btw, now that Egypt's new rulers have permanently opened the border crossing with Gaza, what is the point of these "flotillas" other than to generate anti-Israel propaganda?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

btw, now that Egypt's new rulers have permanently opened the border crossing with Gaza, what is the point of these "flotillas" other than to generate anti-Israel propaganda?

Target practice for the IDF?

[Penguin]

Greece made a proposal to bring the goods to Gaza, under UN supervision.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...-gaza-1.371209

Smart move! I wonder why the flotilla makers didn't say anything to this proposal...

But the real reason for the flotilla:
It's all about bringing love to Gaza, dudes!
See here:

[MH]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Greece made a proposal to bring the goods to Gaza, under UN supervision.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...-gaza-1.371209

Smart move! I wonder why the flotilla makers didn't say anything to this proposal...

Its not covered in their manuals.

A bit off topic lol

[Skybird]

Two pieces, the first quoting a statement by the Red Cross that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza (and comparing the attacks from Gaza on Israel to the terror attacks in Ireland, asking whether or not Britons were expected not to react to that), the second - in German - referring to a spokes"person" (no sexual discrimination please) for the Gaza flotilla failure II , sayiong it loud andf clear that they are not about humanitarian aide, but about freeing all Palestine, since Palistinians "do not want humanitarian aid" (quote). Which means: not only is Israel legally bound to prevent even just a single blockade breaking (Iexplained earlier), but the people representing that flotilla are no neutral helpers representing a neutral aidse, but are an actively participating conflict party that have already chosen sides in the conflict - and thus must be seen as enemies of Israel.

http://www.takeapen.org/Takeapen/Tem...ID=84&FID=2064

http://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/po...umanitaer.html

I wonder why German media still insist on calling it a "Hilfsflotte für Gaza". It is no aid project. Not at all.

Greece made a proposal to bring the goods to Gaza, under UN supervision

Is that the same UN that complained last week that Israel was still blocking some of the UNs own humanitarian aid shipments through the land crossing?

I wonder why the flotilla makers didn't say anything to this proposal...

Possibly because the people making the offer are still complaining that they can't get all their own aid through

Though the UN together with the US welcomed the easing of some restrictions but are both still waiting for Israel to do what it said it was going to do last year.