Community-based AddOn in coop with UBI - Enlist here!

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Pintea

My 2c about the subject:
The way this proposal was made will never work...from what I have seen here, I doubt that any modder will work under Ubisoft's coordination (don't think for a second that you will have full freedom, this is not possible in a coordinated team).

Also, you will have to work together in a larger team, meaning that you will be tested for your competencies and be given tasks in the field you're most talented in. Judging by the variation of mods on the same subject do you think your egos will let you work consensually on a single variant of, say, GUI ?
Besides that, one of the purposes of mods is to fit more than one taste, do you think Ubi would release an add-on with 5 types of GUI inside ?


My proposal:
Push Ubi to release a SDK (Software Development Kit) of SH5 with only the non-executable parts of the code (.dll only) that contain game-logic code. Trust me, the game is designed to be able to do this...shouldn't take more than 1-2 man months to release a SDK for the game.
Also, they should release all the other tools that weren't released with the game (and there are some that would give you an almost unimaginable level of productivity when modding...just think if you weren't forced to restart the game when changing a single value in a .cfg, and there are tons of cfgs with thousands of values inside, and the game loads soooo slowly...).

I subscribe what you propose here... how do you think we can make them to release this SDK... make a petition list and send to them?... what is your advice?

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Pintea

My 2c about the subject:
The way this proposal was made will never work...from what I have seen here, I doubt that any modder will work under Ubisoft's coordination (don't think for a second that you will have full freedom, this is not possible in a coordinated team).

In practice I dont think it would be much of a 'team' at all
It would probably more like, Ubi saying to us, you do your thing and we will have a couple of spare hands to try help you compile it. or something like that
They would not treat it even remotley like an in-house project where everything thing is locked down, because on the contrary, a forum full off Non-Ubi employees is 100% out of their control.

Originally Posted by Pintea

Push Ubi to release a SDK (Software Development Kit) of SH5 with only the non-executable parts of the code (.dll only) that contain game-logic code.
Also, they should release all the other tools that weren't released with the game (and there are some that would give you an almost unimaginable level of productivity when modding...

We can't 'push' Ubi to do anything since we dont actually have any leverage
So dont hold your breath for the SDK or any tools. for instance in SHV, they used Rads Granny 3d as their exporter which is a commercially licenced third party dev tool costing thousand's of dollars (so it is not Ubi's to distribute even if they wanted to)
The SDK is Ubi's interlectual property, which they may yet still be able to sell on to another developer.

I worry that Urfish's proposal (as good intentioned as it is) would likely end up getting shot down by Ubi's legal dept long before it can even ask for any resources.
Can you imagine if Ubi published say a 3d model of a new ship in the addon - which later transpires to be a mesh built by a published artist who did not authorise its use? (e.g pirated payware from an illegal download)
Im not saying this would happen or anyone here would do such a thing, but such a proposal would have to pass though someone at their end - who's job it is to factor in all these scenario's for them... So I dont know.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Pintea

My 2c about the subject:
The way this proposal was made will never work...from what I have seen here, I doubt that any modder will work under Ubisoft's coordination (don't think for a second that you will have full freedom, this is not possible in a coordinated team).

I have a big issue working under Ubi command, they suck! But no problem to work under another moder command. We know better what this game needs.

Originally Posted by Pintea

Also, you will have to work together in a larger team, meaning that you will be tested for your competencies and be given tasks in the field you're most talented in. Judging by the variation of mods on the same subject do you think your egos will let you work consensually on a single variant of, say, GUI ?
Besides that, one of the purposes of mods is to fit more than one taste, do you think Ubi would release an add-on with 5 types of GUI inside ?
[B]

I agree on this part. Old players will cry forever after the obsolete and ugly SH3 UI, while the younger ones like the new slim one. I would never ever play SH with a SH3-4 like UI. Actually I play without any UI, its hidden. But this part can be further addressed only by mods, no need to include it into an official addon.

Originally Posted by Pintea

Also, they should release all the other tools that weren't released with the game (and there are some that would give you an almost unimaginable level of productivity when modding...just think if you weren't forced to restart the game when changing a single value in a .cfg, and there are tons of cfgs with thousands of values inside, and the game loads soooo slowly...).

Now this would be a dream. For me working on the campaign, its a real horror to load the game million of times just to see every little changes I make. Is why many features will be released without proper testing, its just impossible to test a whole campaign in every little detail.

Speaking for myself, I would love to work in a strong and experienced moders team and work out a new and different campaign in every little details. And this would include the Pacific war too! So finally we could have a SH where the players can play on any side they want and anywhere they want. Its very doable, but would require a HUGE amount of work even for an experienced team. But I would love to be part of that team with only one condition.. no Ubi employee will interfere with us, should be only a moders team.


Regarding TDW opinion about his mods being commercial free.. thats an illusion. Your mods and every mod here that improve and fix the game make Ubi to earn more and more money by attracting more and more people who will buy the game. So yeah... your mods are for free, but also pours money in Ubi's pocket. To have the game open for moding was one of the best commercial decision taken by Ubi. Why spend time and money on making a good game when others can do it for us for free :/

[Sbygneus]

To the modders:
I am but ordinary private SH5 user and I ask you to agree UBI's proposal.
Just to save the subsim genre from slipping into oblivion. Thats all. Thank you.

[urfisch]

Just a short note:

Getting the SDK is a dream, that will never come true. Only way to get the file access we need for real improvements, is doing it together with UBI. UBI only cooperates, when they might get a benefit from this.

Otherwise: No chance. This is an old economy law, its all about money or benefit in the end.

So even if some do not like the firm itself (i sign on that!), the possibility of getting the game we ever wanted, is what it makes interesting. But this only will happen, if we do the concept and the work. So a cooperation is the only way.

[Pintea]

Originally Posted by JU_88

We can't 'push' Ubi to do anything since we dont actually have any leverage and petitions can easily be ignored.

Not really "push", just give them the idea to do so...the intention to make the game moddable is cleary there...do you know of any other Ubi game that is this moddable ?
They simply didn't have time to release a SDK, but considering the obvious advantages the modders bring to the game I am sure they will take this into consideration.

Originally Posted by JU_88

Dont hold your breath for the SDK or any tools. for instance in SHV, they used Ganny3d as their exporter which is a licenced third party tool costing thousand's of dollars (so it is not Ubi's to distribute even if they wanted to)

They don't necessarily have to release it, but if we look at companies like Epic (Unreal Engine), they have done this with proprietary tools they're using, probably they release modified versions that only work with their engines...not hard to do.

Originally Posted by JU_88

The SDK is Ubi's interlectual property, which they may yet still be able to sell on to another developer (as its only a couple of years old), some how i dont think they are going to release it into the wild for free.

A SDK only includes certain sub-systems of the game, the building blocks and not the cement to hold it together, if you will. They can still sell it if they want, just see how the Quake or Unreal engines are doing it.

[oscar19681]

Originally Posted by Stevepine

for me the biggest thing that dissapointed me ( even pre launch ) about sh5 was the lack of other U boat types.

I really couldnt believe that.
Any add on HAS to address this.


2) We really need a FAR FAR FAR better way of managing the crew, letting them be killed and take casualties. (Would love to see a large recruitment pool of officers -- so you could open and read all their profiles and choose one or 2 of them to join your crew) even officers with higher skills and experience being unlocked from the recruitment pool ...when you complete enough campaign goals.

This sounds like it could be a really exciting chance to change the game in a deep way. I hope you talented modding guys get behind it. Good luck.

I agree on this. The biggest let down in the game for me personally is the lacking " crew management ""

Also if this is for real i would also like to see a playable destroyer so we can duke it out in multiplayers against echt other .

[oscar19681]

Originally Posted by urfisch

// EVERTHING IS POSSIBLE

No more hardcoded stuff, just possibilities! In cooperation with UBI Romania there would be no more limits to our needs. Access to all files, creating all the content we want.

// THE COMMUNITY BASED ADDON FOR SH5

So i got in contact with the Product Manager of UBI Romania. Now i want to know, which of all the skilled people here want to take part in this? It it is going to be serious work, consider this. Please PM me, i will publish a list with all interested captains.

// THINGS TO DO FIRST

Before a new uboat-crew can been formed, there are 2 things to do:

---

1. Write a short profile about you, your experience in doing modding and your skills.

---

2. Write your ideas of what the addon should consist of. Which points are still open? Please write them in short and explain the idea a bit.

---

For example:

- We need wolfpacks, which you can interact with, shadowing convois for a combined attack, etc.

- We need a dynamic radio message system, which considers our boat

- We need many new animations for a fully involved, real behaving crew

- We need new ships

- We need more playable uboat types.

- We need historically correct harbours, with new buildings, ships, etc.

- We need the old crew management, access to all your crew members, to form special task forces for repairs, the possibility to decorate and promote all sailors, etc.

- We need an Enigma applet ingame to decypher messages manually

- We need an ingame library applet, to read books in the game, while sitting in the captains corner

- We need small ingame games, to play chess or cards with the crew, etc.

- We need the possibility of leaving the pier in bunker and go to our office, or barracks.

- We need the possibility to leave the bunker and visit the harbour club nearby, to talk to the community (online), or just play some roulette or read the latest newspapers.

etc...

// THE AIM

We create a community based AddOn for SH5, which contains all the stuff we still miss. The AddOn is going to be published via Ubisoft Romania and costs money. All involved people have to sign a "Non Disclosure Agreement" and a special contract. So everything is done right, you can get a share of the income and are credited by ubisoft.

// ENLIST NOW AND BECOME PART OF THE CREW!!!



Please note: Everything is still pre-beta status. First i need an overview, which people want to take part - seriously. Afterwards i need profiles of these people, and we gonna vote a teamleader. And from this point on, we are sitting together and sort out the collected ideas from all of you! Then a "Game Design Document" is written. With this document, we get together with UBI and talk about the further steps.

I like the idea. But how offcial is this? I would love to see a combined modders team and take this sh-5 to the next level. I am allready impressed what is being done now by the community and i think together we could add the crusial missing thing to an addon and beyond. But i wouldnt cheer to soon . I would want to see an official statement first before getting involved.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Zedi

Regarding TDW opinion about his mods being commercial free.. thats an illusion. Your mods and every mod here that improve and fix the game make Ubi to earn more and more money by attracting more and more people who will buy the game. So yeah... your mods are for free, but also pours money in Ubi's pocket. To have the game open for moding was one of the best commercial decision taken by Ubi. Why spend time and money on making a good game when others can do it for us for free :/

Excellent point

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Pintea

Not really "push", just give them the idea to do so...the intention to make the game moddable is cleary there...do you know of any other Ubi game that is this moddable ?
They simply didn't have time to release a SDK, but considering the obvious advantages the modders bring to the game I am sure they will take this into consideration..

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Pintea

They don't necessarily have to release it, but if we look at companies like Epic (Unreal Engine), they have done this with proprietary tools they're using, probably they release modified versions that only work with their engines...not hard to do..

Ok, but either they have already made such modified tools which they never released? - (seems strange if they wanted to encourage moddablity)
Dan and co were well aware of the problems we faced with GR2 and have already been good enough to try to help out where they could.
-Or Ubi still need to create these modified tools? which means plugging some limited resources back in to SHV.... when there have been stong indictions that they have washed their hands and moved on - though I hope I am wrong.

Originally Posted by Pintea

A SDK only includes certain sub-systems of the game, the building blocks and not the cement to hold it together, if you will. They can still sell it if they want, just see how the Quake or Unreal engines are doing it.

That may be, but I do belive Ubi were begged for a non-commercial SDK release for Sh3 and 4 - all to no avail, I don't really see what is so different this time around?

[Pintea]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Ok thats true, but I belive they were begged for a non commercial SDK release for Sh3 and 4 - all to no avail, what is so different this time around?

Didn't know that...the only things keeping them from releasing a SDK are insufficient resources (it still requires 1-2 programmers to work on it for a while) or insufficient understanding of the technology involved, after all you'll be talking to the suits and not the devs...you should make contact with an influential dev from the inside, that could maybe help...

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Pintea

you should make contact with an influential dev from the inside, that could maybe help...

Already in contact with one of them, but he's a good guy and I dont really wanna hassle him

[Txema]

Originally Posted by Zedi

Regarding TDW opinion about his mods being commercial free.. thats an illusion. Your mods and every mod here that improve and fix the game make Ubi to earn more and more money by attracting more and more people who will buy the game. So yeah... your mods are for free, but also pours money in Ubi's pocket. To have the game open for moding was one of the best commercial decision taken by Ubi. Why spend time and money on making a good game when others can do it for us for free :/

That is not really true. Ubi is not making money with SH5 any more.

It is sold for just $4.60 in Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Silent-Hunter-...6324422&sr=1-1

Or for £4.67 in Amazon.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Hunte...6324366&sr=1-1

No money for Ubi from SH5 these days....

[Alex]

Is that light I see at the end of the tunnel ?

If you can bring this project to life, I'll do what I can modeling wise.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Txema

That is not really true. Ubi is not making money with SH5 any more.

It is sold for just $4.60 in Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Silent-Hunter-...6324422&sr=1-1

Or for £4.67 in Amazon.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Hunte...6324366&sr=1-1

No money for Ubi from SH5 these days....

Thats not quite true either, there is a big difference between 'some money' and 'no money'.
SHV is still £19.99 on Steam (who dont release sales figures) though its currently on offer at £13.49 for this week only along with abunch of other Ubi titles.

A Ubi dev once mentioned that Simulators tend to sell quite steadily over a long time period compared to other genres. - So maybe budget buy's is where they make up a reasonable amount of sales on the SH franchise? (especially now the DRM choke hold has been 'loosened up' a abit)
Just saying that id imagine SHV sales - along with its predecessors still continue to trickle in for Ubi.