Hydrophone fix?

[Adooo]

Hi. I have some questions about the hydrophone...

I know it was bugged before TDW fixed it but i would like to know how is it working now...How is the range calculated?

Example : Lets say there is a convoy with 10 ships. I have noticed that the range is always reported for just 1 of those 10 ships, no matter what bearing i choose at the hydrophone...If i put it at bearing 10 range is 2100 if i put it at bearing 30 and click on range again it is still the same 2100....so i guess it can only report for just 1 ship from those 10, nearest one? u sure? ...

I had a situation today... the closest ship was at 1870 range when i checked with stadimeter (twice and went to hydrophone and asked for report nearest contact , estimate/precise range, the bearing was correct but the range was like 2400 with TDC off and like 3200 estimate/ 6000 precise with TDC on so nothing correct WTF? Did all checks within 10 secs so the ship could not move away too much so i guess the range was for a different ship from the convoy and not the closest one?

Also another question...Why are the range calculations different if u have TDC off or on?

If i remember right in SH4 u could get a precise range for every ship in the convoy, depending on what bearing u choose at the hydrophone...

Is it possible to fix the hydrophone so that it is showing the range depending on what bearing(ship) u choose? Would be a great thing!

Note : I have no problems if there is only 1 ship but it is impossible to hunt a convoy using only hydro.....

Using sh5.exe patched to v0.0.3, MO(patched), TDW 6.5.0, IRAI, Real navigation etc...

[jwilliams]

The Hydrophone on German uboats was not used to calculate range, using the method you described. As uboats had no ability to ping the target, and for this reason I've never used the feature that some UI's adds to the game.

So IMO there is only one thing wrong with the hydrophone and that is that it allows you to ping the target.

If you want to calculate range to target using the hydrophone, try this method. ------> The four bearing method

and stoianm's... How to use the 4 bearing method in SH5 video tutorial ----> Link

[Trevally.]

Some info on active sonar

German U-boats of WW2 DID have active sonar..they just did not use it and it was eventually removed.

The type VII was fitted with active sonar in the mid 40 time frame.It was a revolving
transducer like the KBT mount seen later in the war.The reasons that it was removed later on and that we don't hear of U-boats using active sonar are as follows:

1. It was a 'trainable' device not an 'array' like the GHG so it had relatively short range...only 3000-4000 meters under good conditions. The passive GHG could hear an individual ship at around 20000 meters and a convoy at approx 100nm
(again these are under ideal conditions). An active 'array' would have given much greater range (probably out to 15000 meters).

2. Allied escorts could hear the active pulses and home in on them from well beyond the sonars effective range.

3. It was not as sophisticated as the 'Neiubling' system on the type XXI and was not linked into the U-boats fire control system like the 'Neiubling' was. This meant that it took a relatively long time to figure out a targets course/speed etc using the sonar...all the time transmitting and letting the escorts know where you are.
The XXI soanar needed as few as 3 pings to determine target speed/course which was fed directley to the fire control system allowing the tactic called 'deep directed shooting'. The tactics which where devised by test group 'Sultan' for the XXI were these. The target would be located at long range by the GHG and teh U-boat positioned on a interceot course. As the strength of the contact on the GHG
increased and the GHG operator thought that the target was withing 10000 meters the 'Neiubling' was switched on to 'listen only' mode. The system had a cathode ray screen to diplay all contacts and in 'listen only' mode it displayed ocean noise. When the propellor noise of the ship/s could be seen on the screen (as a regular series of spikes across the bottom of the screen - the beats of the propellor blades - the set was switched to 'active' and several pulses sent out.

4. As the allies increasingly used radar to spot surfaced U-boats the U-boats started carrying radar warning devices. The associated electronics cabinets had to go somewhere and the space used by the little used active sonar seemed like the ideal place.

http://www.uboat.net/forums/read.php?20,59905,60690

Also

http://www.uboataces.com/hydrophones.shtml

If you use TDWs UI, you can also learn "the four bearings method"
by running an ingame tutorial. See my sig

[Jaguar]

Type XXIs were such a huge step forward. It´s capabilities never cease to surprise me.

[jwilliams]

Thanks for the info Trevally.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

Thanks for the info Trevally.

For the active sonar in game:-

The depth under keel ping - can be heard by DDs so beware when using.
The range ping - is not detected. (hope TDW can fix this someday when he runs out of things to fix)

[Adooo]

I understand that it is not realistic to have the range info from the hydrophone and that u guys want 100% realism but this is a game and i play it to enjoy and where i enjoy is hunting with hydrophone only (used to it from SH4). Now, i dont have any problems at all to hunt a single ship but to hunt a convoy with hydro only is almost impossible atm. I have also tried the four bearings methode but without range info and using 4 bearings method u wont be able to hunt a convoy with hydro only because the sonar guy will not report the bearing for the same 1 ship. He will report the first bearing for the leading destroyer and after 5 mins he will (sometimes) report the bearing for the 2nd or 3rd merchant from the convoy or the side protecting destroyer etc...so u never know...

Another thing. Where is the problem in having options? If u are going for 100% realism nobody said u have to use the range option, its up to you but its a good thing to have different options...

I made this thread because it was really annoying when i was hunting my last convoy with hydro only. When u click on estimate range he gives u a range for 1 of those 10 ships from the convoy so u never know for sure for which one. I click on report nearest contact and he says bearing 30, after 3-4 mins he report me the nearest contact at bearing 77 and the convoy was heading from my right to my left side so WTF?

Anyways i would like to know (if anybody knows) the mechanics behind the hydrophone when hunting a convoy. For which ship is the range/bearing reported and on what is it depending? Why do you have different range calculations if TDC is on or off? I did some tests but cant say for sure...

Finally is it possible, can i change some file or settings to get the range calculated depending on what bearing(ship) i choose at the hydrophone? Currently, if the contact is at bearing 30 u can put the hydrophone at bearing 20 or 40 and the range will be reported for the same contact and thats where the problem is when hunting a convoy...Is it possible to lower this from 20 degrees to lets say 1,2 or 5 degrees so if u have 2 ships, 1 at bearing 10 and the other one at bearing 17 they are processed as 2 different contacts and not like 1 as it is the case atm? Anybody know if this can be done?

Thanks!

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Adooo

I understand that it is not realistic to have the range info from the hydrophone and that u guys want 100% realism but this is a game and i play it to enjoy and where i enjoy is hunting with hydrophone only (used to it from SH4). Now, i dont have any problems at all to hunt a single ship but to hunt a convoy with hydro only is almost impossible atm. I have also tried the four bearings methode but without range info and using 4 bearings method u wont be able to hunt a convoy with hydro only because the sonar guy will not report the bearing for the same 1 ship. He will report the first bearing for the leading destroyer and after 5 mins he will (sometimes) report the bearing for the 2nd or 3rd merchant from the convoy or the side protecting destroyer etc...so u never know...

The four bearing method will give you the exact position of the target. This includes its range from you, it's Speed, heading, Angle on bow, etc.

If you ask the sonar guy to "Follow nearest sound contact", he will follow the same 1 ship and report the same 1 ships postion as and when its in a new degree. Until either contact is lost, you ask for a nearest sound contact or you ask him to stop. This is how I plot my four bearing method and it seems to work for me.

Originally Posted by Adooo

Another thing. Where is the problem in having options? If u are going for 100% realism nobody said u have to use the range option, its up to you but its a good thing to have different options...

Yes I agree, I was not implying that you should not use the method you use, I was just offering a method that I know works (As your method seems to be flawed/bugged).

Originally Posted by Adooo

I made this thread because it was really annoying when i was hunting my last convoy with hydro only. When u click on estimate range he gives u a range for 1 of those 10 ships from the convoy so u never know for sure for which one. I click on report nearest contact and he says bearing 30, after 3-4 mins he report me the nearest contact at bearing 77 and the convoy was heading from my right to my left side so WTF?

Anyways i would like to know (if anybody knows) the mechanics behind the hydrophone when hunting a convoy. For which ship is the range/bearing reported and on what is it depending?

When you ask him to report the estimate range to contact, he reports the nearest contact... This may not be the target he reported before as there may now be a closer target.

Originally Posted by Adooo

Why do you have different range calculations if TDC is on or off? I did some tests but cant say for sure...

Is this on a single ship, or only in a convoy???
If its just a convoy, it may be reporting a different ship.
But I've never tested this.

Originally Posted by Adooo

Finally is it possible, can i change some file or settings to get the range calculated depending on what bearing(ship) i choose at the hydrophone? Currently, if the contact is at bearing 30 u can put the hydrophone at bearing 20 or 40 and the range will be reported for the same contact and thats where the problem is when hunting a convoy...Is it possible to lower this from 20 degrees to lets say 1,2 or 5 degrees so if u have 2 ships, 1 at bearing 10 and the other one at bearing 17 they are processed as 2 different contacts and not like 1 as it is the case atm? Anybody know if this can be done?

Thanks!

The problem is he reports the NEAREST SOUND CONTACT.

So what you want is him to report is "range to contact on my bearing"?

I beleive that the hydrophone is hard coded, (which is why TDW gave us the info to hex edit the .exe to fix the hydrophone).

Link to TDW patcher for hydrophone fix..... [TEC] SH5.exe patches to fix bugs and add functionality (How to patch your sh5.exe file for v0.0.1 (fixes broken hydrophone station)

[stoianm]

It is a way to use hydro to obtain range... it is not realistic but can be aplied only for a ship.... for a convoy it is not posible to track with hydro... and i have doubts you can do that changing cfg files or i dunno... this is hard coded

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by Adooo

I have also tried the four bearings methode but without range info and using 4 bearings method u wont be able to hunt a convoy with hydro only because the sonar guy will not report the bearing for the same 1 ship. He will report the first bearing for the leading destroyer and after 5 mins he will (sometimes) report the bearing for the 2nd or 3rd merchant from the convoy or the side protecting destroyer etc...so u never know...

At long range - say 25km, I ask for "report sound contact" and use these
for bearings with 30 mins between. I find this gives you enough to get to
a good fiing possition and if targets ar not too close - enough info for solution.

If convoy is close or heading at me fast where there is a noticable spread
of sound contact. I use "follow nearest warship" command from the hydro
command officer. This will track the same target.
Problem here is when you move for you fourth bearing - you can lose contact.
Then it does become a guessing game.
Here I would always confirm my solution with visual checks.
if it was thick fog - I may hit with one out of four torps.

I assume you are also using the real nav mod.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

At long range - say 25km, I ask for "report sound contact" and use these
for bearings with 30 mins between. I find this gives you enough to get to
a good fiing possition and if targets ar not too close - enough info for solution.

If convoy is close or heading at me fast where there is a noticable spread
of sound contact. I use "follow nearest warship" command from the hydro
command officer. This will track the same target.
Problem here is when you move for you fourth bearing - you can lose contact.
Then it does become a guessing game.
Here I would always confirm my solution with visual checks.
if it was thick fog - I may hit with one out of four torps.

I assume you are also using the real nav mod.

Trevally... thanks for the ideea... i will track only the DDs for convoy... i will use the hydro ping to find speed, course for convoy... i will put myself on fast 90 and i will hit only one ship on the convoy... this in heavy fog ofcource... but... it is a but... often the DDs speed is diferent from the rest of the convoy

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by stoianm

Trevally... thanks for the ideea... i will track only the DDs for convoy... i will use the hydro ping to find speed, course for convoy... i will put myself on fast 90 and i will hit only one ship on the convoy... this in heavy fog ofcource... but... it is a but... often the DDs speed is diferent from the rest of the convoy

Yes the DD's are a pain to track as they often patrol around the convoy, changing speed and course.

I find it annoying when I've been tracking the nearest sound contact and by the time I've got my fourth bearing, I notice/discover that I've been tracking an escort ship and my speed and heading of convoy is wrong.

It makes it more rewarding when you get it right though.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

Yes the DD's are a pain to track as they often patrol around the convoy, changing speed and course.

I find it annoying when I've been tracking the nearest sound contact and by the time I've got my fourth bearing, I notice/discover that I've been tracking an escort ship and my speed and heading of convoy is wrong.

It makes it more rewarding when you get it right though.

I tested and it is working... i used the hydro ping and i found the course and the speed of a convoy in heavy fog tracking the nearest war ship contact... i puted myself in 90 degrees... i fixed my tdc for fast 90... and i sunked a ship from that convoy... all this at -19 metters submerged

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by stoianm

I tested and it is working... i used the hydro ping and i found the course and the speed of a convoy in heavy fog tracking the nearest war ship contact... i puted myself in 90 degrees... i fixed my tdc for fast 90... and i sunked a ship from that convoy... all this at -19 metters submerged

You know what I'm going to say now, don't you.

That's right......Stoianm's cheating again!!!



The ping is too accurate.... It's surposed to be an estimate to contact, not a precise range to contact.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

You know what I'm going to say now, don't you.

That's right......Stoianm's cheating again!!!



The ping is too accurate.... It's surposed to be an estimate to contact, not a precise range to contact.

I did not cheat... i have a very good hydro... last generation... just discovered by hitler savants... and my hydro sound guy has made his studies at Harward... he is very talented