Holocaust Museum Washington DC - Page 2

MH · 03-22-11, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Idealism. Consistency of idealism. Proper idealism. The hope for something better......

I was hoping it was somthing like that

Thing is reality don't always work this way....

AVGWarhawk · 03-22-11, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

I was hoping it was somthing like that

Thing is reality don't always work this way....

Agreed.

tater · 03-22-11, 04:43 PM

Genocide is different than "democide" (a term coined by Rummel). Genocide requires that people are exterminated for an indelible trait. Gypsies would be genocide. Jews are genocide because they were treated as a race, not as people who voluntarily held a set of beliefs. This distinction dates to the Spanish Inquisition. The Catholics in the camps were not there for being Catholic (Hitler, after all, was a Catholic as the church didn't see fit to boot him out, because he didn't do anything bad like some Nazis who WERE kicked out of the church (the crime being a marriage to a non-Catholic, which is clearly worse than mass murder

)).

Political enemies being exterminated is also not genocide.

The Soviets murdered more than the Nazis did (as did the PRC), but again, not strictly genocide (the communist hallmark was always the really random nature of their mass murder).

A focus on the jewish aspect is unremarkable in the US. There are far more jews here in the US than Gypsies, for example. Catholics were not persecuted by Nazi germany, in fact many of the persecutors were themselves Catholic... Nor is there a large block of former Nazi political prisoners around. So when seeking the museum, and you start hitting people up for money, who will you ask? From a pure marketing strategy to focus the fundraising on the primary group exterminated for an indelible trait makes plenty of sense.

Anyway, to be fair, the point was to focus on genocide, not merely mass murder (ie: others who were exterminated in the camps). If the focus was merely "death by government" then I'd expect the vast majority of the museum to be directed towards the communists, and their vast depredations.

AVGWarhawk · 03-22-11, 05:58 PM

I do not believe the museum was to mainly focus on genocide per say. It is the Holocaust Museum. The holocaust mostly associated with the Jewish community even though it involved others. The focus IMO would be towards the Jews. The Jewish people were at the bottom of the list as human beings. To the Nazi, below every other race, creed, religion, sexual orientation handicapped sat the Jewish people. This bit of information came from the my museum visit. It was posted on the wall next to the tools used to measure skulls (outside calipers), a box of glass eyes all in different colors. Tufts of hair in different colors and textures. The poster of different peoples around the world. Pictures of mentally handicapped. Basically anyone that lacks some type of Nordic background. This was an exercise in creating the master race. But below all of that was the Jewish who were the root of Germany's problems(according to the Nazi). This brings us to the question the Nazi had, what to do with the Jewish people? The 'Final Solution.' The final solution was to exterminate the Jews. The others involved, gypsie, homosexual, handicapped and other races fell into the master race idea. For lack of a better phrase, a by product of Hitler's vision of Germany. As we see the killing went on to include those that opposed the Nazi. This was all explained in as much detail as required to show that the Holocaust although focused mainly on the Jewish people, it also involved many others. However, the others were not part of the 'Final Solution'. This was soley reserved for the Jewish community.

03-22-11, 04:43 PM	#18
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Genocide is different than "democide" (a term coined by Rummel). Genocide requires that people are exterminated for an indelible trait. Gypsies would be genocide. Jews are genocide because they were treated as a race, not as people who voluntarily held a set of beliefs. This distinction dates to the Spanish Inquisition. The Catholics in the camps were not there for being Catholic (Hitler, after all, was a Catholic as the church didn't see fit to boot him out, because he didn't do anything bad like some Nazis who WERE kicked out of the church (the crime being a marriage to a non-Catholic, which is clearly worse than mass murder )). Political enemies being exterminated is also not genocide. The Soviets murdered more than the Nazis did (as did the PRC), but again, not strictly genocide (the communist hallmark was always the really random nature of their mass murder). A focus on the jewish aspect is unremarkable in the US. There are far more jews here in the US than Gypsies, for example. Catholics were not persecuted by Nazi germany, in fact many of the persecutors were themselves Catholic... Nor is there a large block of former Nazi political prisoners around. So when seeking the museum, and you start hitting people up for money, who will you ask? From a pure marketing strategy to focus the fundraising on the primary group exterminated for an indelible trait makes plenty of sense. Anyway, to be fair, the point was to focus on genocide, not merely mass murder (ie: others who were exterminated in the camps). If the focus was merely "death by government" then I'd expect the vast majority of the museum to be directed towards the communists, and their vast depredations. __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

03-22-11, 05:58 PM	#19
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,257 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I do not believe the museum was to mainly focus on genocide per say. It is the Holocaust Museum. The holocaust mostly associated with the Jewish community even though it involved others. The focus IMO would be towards the Jews. The Jewish people were at the bottom of the list as human beings. To the Nazi, below every other race, creed, religion, sexual orientation handicapped sat the Jewish people. This bit of information came from the my museum visit. It was posted on the wall next to the tools used to measure skulls (outside calipers), a box of glass eyes all in different colors. Tufts of hair in different colors and textures. The poster of different peoples around the world. Pictures of mentally handicapped. Basically anyone that lacks some type of Nordic background. This was an exercise in creating the master race. But below all of that was the Jewish who were the root of Germany's problems(according to the Nazi). This brings us to the question the Nazi had, what to do with the Jewish people? The 'Final Solution.' The final solution was to exterminate the Jews. The others involved, gypsie, homosexual, handicapped and other races fell into the master race idea. For lack of a better phrase, a by product of Hitler's vision of Germany. As we see the killing went on to include those that opposed the Nazi. This was all explained in as much detail as required to show that the Holocaust although focused mainly on the Jewish people, it also involved many others. However, the others were not part of the 'Final Solution'. This was soley reserved for the Jewish community. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road