Libyan No-Fly Zone res. passed by UN - Page 7

MH · 03-19-11, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

Since it's now goodbye gadaffi, how bad was he really?

Qaddafi was Da Man for most Arabs for the foxy atitude toward west.

He is leader of Bedouin tribes and has grown up in one so his rulling style is as such.
He is not much diffrent from many African and ME leaders.
This no fly zone crap to help Lybian peaple is simply populistic bull.
After qaddafi there will be just another Qadaffi.

TorpX · 03-19-11, 05:47 AM

Does anybody know what is happening inside Libya? I've heard very little about this lately.

joegrundman · 03-19-11, 05:56 AM

but it's not just a no fly zone. I thought at first it was, hence my earlier position that this was a negotiation.

But the resolution also calls for an end to any further advance on rebel positions.

In short the resolution is creating a new micro-state out of those Libyan towns currently held by rebels.

Since this outcome is essentially pointless, and certainly not part of any clear thinking, the conclusion is that it is not intended to be accepted and is a precursor to the removal of gaddaffi in order to restore the libyan state.

if he really is wily, he'll accept the new micro state and enjoy watching the huge amount of treasure being spent by the UN to protect something pointless and think about what to do with his oil concessions

if you remember the oil concessions for Al Megrahi exchange with Britain, Britain has now thrown away it's side of the bargain, while Libya already has Megrahi back. He can now renegotiate the oil business with whoever he wants.

But there is a good chance that the nutty old chess player will make a foolish decision as a result of the external pressure, and get himself killed.

joegrundman · 03-19-11, 06:10 AM

Plane been shot down in Benghazi

looks like it was the rebel plane, and may even have been friendly fire that did it

Skybird · 03-19-11, 06:14 AM

After the UN resolution calling for a halt, and after the declared cease-fire, Gaddafi-loyal troops advanced further and now have entered Benghazi.

Reaction by the European forces: none.

Bakkels · 03-19-11, 08:20 AM

A former minister of foreign affairs here made a comment about that yesterday evening: they are actually waiting until Ghadaffi enters Benghazi, or is at it's doorstep. That way they have a legitimate humanitarian reason to intervene, which makes it harder for anyone to criticize them afterwards. Kinda made sense I thought.

Rockstar · 03-19-11, 08:34 AM

Lack of action on the wests part is simply saying yes to Cadaffy in case he wins. At the same time the sabre rattling is simply a show to the anti-Qwadufy forces that we support them too just in case they win.

Nobody gives a rats arse if Gedffiy wins or the anti-Kadwafy forces win. Everyone is scrambling around jockying for a favorable position to whomever the winner may be.

Skybird · 03-19-11, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakkels

A former minister of foreign affairs here made a comment about that yesterday evening: they are actually waiting until Ghadaffi enters Benghazi, or is at it's doorstep. That way they have a legitimate humanitarian reason to intervene, which makes it harder for anyone to criticize them afterwards. Kinda made sense I thought.

Make sense?

Attacking enemies inside a city is more difficult, and bears greater risk of collateral damage. Also, house-to-house combt is a nasty affair - hostiles having entered the city could hold out long there, even if their supplies lines outside the city get interrupted by air raids.

To call this a situation that makes sense again means that political reality-distortion is undermining military reason.

Jimbuna · 03-19-11, 09:56 AM

Rafales are now flying recon flights over the Gadaffi front line..

Tchocky · 03-19-11, 09:56 AM

French Rafales have been overflying Libya for the last few hours, out of St. Dizier near Nancy. long way to go.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12795971

Edit - Ah jim

Accoridng to Sarko, the jets are there to deter the Libyan MiGs, one of which was shot down earlier in Benghazi by rebels.

TLAM Strike · 03-19-11, 10:13 AM

Mirage 2000 jet have been spotted with Recon pods and tanks taking off from France.
Al Jazeera reports that the French goverment has autrized air strikes against Loyalist forces that have entered Benghazi.

RAF Tornadoes with tanks were seen taking off from Scotland.

CNN footage showed a Loyalist troop convoy with 4 SA-8 SAM TELs and a SA-7 truck mount plus MBTs and SPGs south of Benghazi.

Freiwillige · 03-19-11, 10:27 AM

Hmmm playing devils advocate here, If I were daffy duck I would switch to a gorilla warfare form. Ditch all military uniforms, Have infiltrators inside the rebellion collecting info sabotaging weapons stocks. And take the fight into the cities where allied flights would have a hard time distinguishing friend from foe.

Every time there is even remote collateral damage make sure photo's and interviews with survivors get out to influence world opinion.

Have secret police round up any sympathizers while giving fat bonus's to loyalists. Build anything remotely positive to steer the will of the people, Park's schools, shopping centers so that Daffy duck can say look what I am doing for Libya!

Pull a Saddam and have all the tanks and artillery safeguarded with civilian shields, Volunteers of course!

Yea that's what I would do If I was Daffy duck.

(Note) I am not at all sympathetic to Daffy's cause just pointing out the he still has the capabilities to create a total SNAFU for the west. If we don't put boots on the ground he can control things easier. If we do put boots on the ground it will be another insult to Muslims who will see it as yet again western intervention and galvanize the forces not to mention irritate the rebels who have clearly stated no western ground forces!

Skybird · 03-19-11, 11:29 AM

Comment in German on Germany's failure over the Lybia resolution. Diplomatic Germany will have to pay a price for this mess. The votum gets revleaed as what it is: toughness in words, but meaninglessness in deeds and cowardice in intention.

http://www.welt.de/debatte/article12...rue#reqdrucken

German elections in several states this year and domestic policies may play one role here. But that is no excuse, but only illustrates to what degree poltical parties now are willing to sacrifice all and everything ofr their own desire to claim power - no matter the cost.

Since long I think that political parties are one of the tombstone of parliamentary democracies. Members of parliament should be forbidden to organise in any form of political associations, clubs, parties or the the like. It necessarily and inevitably turns any democracy into a lobby-driven oligarchy and party-dictatorship. Already Aristoteles pointed at that direction. When thinking about Europe's decision-forming mechanisms and powerfactions and slogans today, i just think three letters that are like a deja vu to what we have today: "GDR".

MH · 03-19-11, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Comment in German on Germany's failure over the Lybia resolution. Diplomatic Germany will have to pay a price for this mess. The votum gets revleaed as what it is: toughness in words, but meaninglessness in deeds and cowardice in intention.

http://www.welt.de/debatte/article12...rue#reqdrucken

German elections in several states this year and domestic policies may play one role here. But that is no excuse, but only illustrates to what degree poltical parties now are willing to sacrifice all and everything ofr their own desire to claim power - no matter the cost.

Since long I think that political parties are one of the tombstone of parliamentary democracies. Members of parliament should be forbidden to organise in any form of political associations, clubs, parties or the the like. It necessarily and inevitably turns any democracy into a lobby-driven oligarchy and party-dictatorship. Already Aristoteles pointed at that direction. When thinking about Europe's decision-forming mechanisms and powerfactions and slogans today, i just think three letters that are like a deja vu to what we have today: "GDR".

Can you explain why you have a problem about Germany not joining the show.

Molon Labe · 03-19-11, 12:00 PM

5 US EA-18 Growlers deployed alongside the 31st FW @ Aviano.

Recall that with the retirement of the EF-111, USN gets to cover the Air Force EW mission.

03-19-11, 05:56 AM	#93
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	but it's not just a no fly zone. I thought at first it was, hence my earlier position that this was a negotiation. But the resolution also calls for an end to any further advance on rebel positions. In short the resolution is creating a new micro-state out of those Libyan towns currently held by rebels. Since this outcome is essentially pointless, and certainly not part of any clear thinking, the conclusion is that it is not intended to be accepted and is a precursor to the removal of gaddaffi in order to restore the libyan state. if he really is wily, he'll accept the new micro state and enjoy watching the huge amount of treasure being spent by the UN to protect something pointless and think about what to do with his oil concessions if you remember the oil concessions for Al Megrahi exchange with Britain, Britain has now thrown away it's side of the bargain, while Libya already has Megrahi back. He can now renegotiate the oil business with whoever he wants. But there is a good chance that the nutty old chess player will make a foolish decision as a result of the external pressure, and get himself killed. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

03-19-11, 06:10 AM	#94
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Plane been shot down in Benghazi looks like it was the rebel plane, and may even have been friendly fire that did it __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

03-19-11, 06:14 AM	#95
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,649 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	After the UN resolution calling for a halt, and after the declared cease-fire, Gaddafi-loyal troops advanced further and now have entered Benghazi. Reaction by the European forces: none. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-19-11, 08:20 AM	#96
Bakkels Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Groningen, The Netherlands Posts: 709 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 6	A former minister of foreign affairs here made a comment about that yesterday evening: they are actually waiting until Ghadaffi enters Benghazi, or is at it's doorstep. That way they have a legitimate humanitarian reason to intervene, which makes it harder for anyone to criticize them afterwards. Kinda made sense I thought. __________________ My sh3 skins : http://www.gamefront.com/files/user/Bakkels Or go to the sh3 downloads section > skins

03-19-11, 09:56 AM	#99
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,615 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Rafales are now flying recon flights over the Gadaffi front line.. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-19-11, 05:47 AM	#92
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	Does anybody know what is happening inside Libya? I've heard very little about this lately.

03-19-11, 08:34 AM	#97
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Lack of action on the wests part is simply saying yes to Cadaffy in case he wins. At the same time the sabre rattling is simply a show to the anti-Qwadufy forces that we support them too just in case they win. Nobody gives a rats arse if Gedffiy wins or the anti-Kadwafy forces win. Everyone is scrambling around jockying for a favorable position to whomever the winner may be.

03-19-11, 09:56 AM	#100
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	French Rafales have been overflying Libya for the last few hours, out of St. Dizier near Nancy. long way to go. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12795971 Edit - Ah jim Accoridng to Sarko, the jets are there to deter the Libyan MiGs, one of which was shot down earlier in Benghazi by rebels. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

03-19-11, 10:13 AM	#101
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Mirage 2000 jet have been spotted with Recon pods and tanks taking off from France. Al Jazeera reports that the French goverment has autrized air strikes against Loyalist forces that have entered Benghazi. RAF Tornadoes with tanks were seen taking off from Scotland. CNN footage showed a Loyalist troop convoy with 4 SA-8 SAM TELs and a SA-7 truck mount plus MBTs and SPGs south of Benghazi. __________________

03-19-11, 10:27 AM	#102
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Hmmm playing devils advocate here, If I were daffy duck I would switch to a gorilla warfare form. Ditch all military uniforms, Have infiltrators inside the rebellion collecting info sabotaging weapons stocks. And take the fight into the cities where allied flights would have a hard time distinguishing friend from foe. Every time there is even remote collateral damage make sure photo's and interviews with survivors get out to influence world opinion. Have secret police round up any sympathizers while giving fat bonus's to loyalists. Build anything remotely positive to steer the will of the people, Park's schools, shopping centers so that Daffy duck can say look what I am doing for Libya! Pull a Saddam and have all the tanks and artillery safeguarded with civilian shields, Volunteers of course! Yea that's what I would do If I was Daffy duck. (Note) I am not at all sympathetic to Daffy's cause just pointing out the he still has the capabilities to create a total SNAFU for the west. If we don't put boots on the ground he can control things easier. If we do put boots on the ground it will be another insult to Muslims who will see it as yet again western intervention and galvanize the forces not to mention irritate the rebels who have clearly stated no western ground forces!

03-19-11, 11:29 AM	#103
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,649 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Comment in German on Germany's failure over the Lybia resolution. Diplomatic Germany will have to pay a price for this mess. The votum gets revleaed as what it is: toughness in words, but meaninglessness in deeds and cowardice in intention. http://www.welt.de/debatte/article12...rue#reqdrucken German elections in several states this year and domestic policies may play one role here. But that is no excuse, but only illustrates to what degree poltical parties now are willing to sacrifice all and everything ofr their own desire to claim power - no matter the cost. Since long I think that political parties are one of the tombstone of parliamentary democracies. Members of parliament should be forbidden to organise in any form of political associations, clubs, parties or the the like. It necessarily and inevitably turns any democracy into a lobby-driven oligarchy and party-dictatorship. Already Aristoteles pointed at that direction. When thinking about Europe's decision-forming mechanisms and powerfactions and slogans today, i just think three letters that are like a deja vu to what we have today: "GDR". __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-19-11, 12:00 PM	#105
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	5 US EA-18 Growlers deployed alongside the 31st FW @ Aviano. Recall that with the retirement of the EF-111, USN gets to cover the Air Force EW mission. __________________