A new urban flight causing problems in Detroit.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Did he have kids?

At the time, no

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

If he had, where would they have slept?

but if he did...

they would have stayed at home in their little crappy apartment with their mother. Trust me - as someone who helps manage rental properties it takes a good 3 or 4 weeks to evict someone in most states, and thats if you follow all the proper steps. and that only takes place after the first rent check is not received by the property owner... so in theory, they might have as much as 60 days to vacate.

Even with the worst case scenario of a home foreclosure you have 30 days in most cases to get out

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Would it have worked to take them out of school for two days? What would they have eaten? If they have to move, where do they stay until the first paycheck? How do they pay a rent deposit? Where do they bathe? What do they put down for a permanent address?

see above explaination

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Your example is not feasible for the majority of people who are out of work. It just doesn't work that way.

i think that it IS feasible for many people... certainly not every single person - but for many people it IS.

i dont want you to open your mind on this one mookie... just crack the door a bit and realize that with a 3-4 week eviction process, or a 30 day foreclosure process it is at least a possibility




EDIT:

though i do understand that there are individuals who will sit around and feel sorry or themselves and look to the government for help as opposed to trying to do anything to fix their situation - i realize that there ARE certain people who are either incapable or unwilling to take care of themselves.

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

they would have stayed at home in their little crappy apartment with their mother.

And if he was divorced? Just have the kids tag along for the ride, I guess? I suppose they could all share the same canteen.

What happens when his car breaks down, and his $100 won't even begin to cover the repairs? Let me guess - it would all work out somehow.

It's a shame that reality is more complicated than your ideology can allow.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

And if he was divorced?

Generally speaking, being divorced doesnt automatically mean the mother has no interest in taking care of her own GD children.

does the man have a mother or a father? trusted friend or neighbor? aunt? uncle? brother? sister? cousin? any relatives on the face of the earth?

Originally Posted by AngusJS

What happens when his car breaks down, and his $100 won't even begin to cover the repairs? Let me guess - it would all work out somehow.

its called telling the mechanic your situation, offering to grab a broom, mop, screw driver and wrench or do anything you can to get a break on the bill. Believe it or not, there are folks out there who will let you do this. I've done it once before myself.

hitch hike for Christ's sake. i remember when I was a kid my dad's truck broke down on a long trip to kentucky to visit my grandparents... we rode in a big rig with a trucker for about 60 miles to the nearest dealership where we could get some kind of help.

whether you can believe it or not, people backpack across europe, they hitch hike across the united states too.

Unlike the more liberal population... I refuse to count any man out as helpless as long as he is willing to help himself!

Originally Posted by AngusJS

It's a shame that reality is more complicated than your ideology can allow.

yes, reality is complicated - so complicated that JUST LIKE I SAID - this scenario is not for everyone... but it is something that can be done by MOST people

[GoldenRivet]

in fairness... nobody ever said such an undertaking was without risk.

[tater]

People who elect to have kids without a safety net of a family at home (ie: spouse), and ideally some extended family in the area (grand parents, etc) I have little sympathy for.

I have no sympathy at all for people who choose to have kids out of wedlock. Yes, it's a CHOICE in this country. Birth control is effective, and cheap. If you are actually using it and are one the the (very rare) failures (ie: not a failure to USE BC, but a failure in the properly used method), then abortion is still quite legal in the US, and often paid for (the % of inner city women that have had abortions is staggeringly high).

There is simply no excuse to have kids until you've "built a nest." Even rodents know enough to make a nest.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by tater

There is simply no excuse to have kids until you've "built a nest." Even rodents know enough to make a nest.

win



im borrowing that by the way

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

does the man have a mother or a father? trusted friend or neighbor? aunt? uncle? brother? sister? cousin? any relatives on the face of the earth?

Oh he does, they just live 1,000 miles away in the opposite direction. He left them in search of a job in the first place, per your advice.

its called telling the mechanic your situation, offering to grab a broom, mop, screw driver and wrench or do anything you can to get a break on the bill. Believe it or not, there are folks out there who will let you do this. I've done it once before myself.

Mechanic: You'll need a new transmission. It'll cost $3,000 and take a week to do.

Mr. Bootstrap: Ok, I only have $100. So can I just help out around the garage to pay it off, even though your own employees would require months to make that much money? Oh, and since all my money is going to the repairs, I'll have to live in my car here at the garage, use your bathroom, and I'll have to dumpster dive out back. Is that cool?

Mechanic: Ummm... no.

hitch hike for Christ's sake. i remember when I was a kid my dad's truck broke down on a long trip to kentucky to visit my grandparents... we rode in a big rig with a trucker for about 60 miles to the nearest dealership where we could get some kind of help.

whether you can believe it or not, people backpack across europe, they hitch hike across the united states too.

So, break the law, then? No problem, I guess. I'm sure Mr. Bootstrap can just offer to do odd jobs around the police station to pay off the fine when he's caught.

And Europe is not the US.

Unlike the more liberal population... I refuse to count any man out as helpless as long as he is willing to help himself!

Unlike the more conservative population, I refuse to live in a fantasy land.

Maybe the scruffy individualist BS is useful as a sort of golden lie, but that's what it'll remain - a lie.

yes, reality is complicated - so complicated that JUST LIKE I SAID - this scenario is not for everyone... but it is something that can be done by MOST people

But then your caveat at the end seemed to imply that while there are people who can't do this, they are the ones who can't or won't help themselves.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

And if he was divorced? Just have the kids tag along for the ride, I guess? I suppose they could all share the same canteen.

What happens when his car breaks down, and his $100 won't even begin to cover the repairs? Let me guess - it would all work out somehow.

It's a shame that reality is more complicated than your ideology can allow.

What reality is that other than, 'what if?' This seems to be the defeatist reality. Again, if the guy has a kid do you think he might have say...a mother to the kid? The mother's family that might look out for the kid? His family to look out for the kid? What if he was divorced..so what...he got friends and family. After all..that how he got the kid to begin with. Do you think it is just the kid and himself...no one else? In rare cases maybe...very rare that said individual has no one at all.

What happens if the car breaks down? What happens if he slips in the shower the day of his interview and cracks his head open? What if, what if, what if.....

Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

[AVGWarhawk]

There is simply no excuse to have kids until you've "built a nest." Even rodents know enough to make a nest.

But it happens.

[GoldenRivet]

There are few things on this great earth as worthless and without value as the man who says "it cannot be done".

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

There are few things on this great earth as worthless and without value as the man who says "it cannot be done".

Amen!

Its unbelivable the contradictory positions people are having to take to support their views.
As Angus said, you don't live in reality.

In one breath its, hey have family and friends in the locale so you can dump your kids while you go walkabout, the next its don't put down roots and connections in an area so you can just up and leave with no worries.

Taters "nest" idea is actually ludicrous in todays situation as people had their nests and thought they had their security and now they find that their nest is burnt, their tree condemned future propects of getting new twigs is non existantt as they have a burnt nest record and some bloody cuckoo is making a racket about these "silly" people not having a proper nest.
Now OK people might have their parents to fall back on, but in this rust belt situation you a looking at parents left in empty towns with their property asset now worthless and their pension provisions thrown away by some coked up banker, and you people want folk to leave kids with their grandparents who now live in a ghetto while they themselves live out the back of a car or in some doss house working illegaly in the black economy just to fix the damn motor car

[AVGWarhawk]

In one breath its, hey have family and friends in the locale so you can dump your kids while you go walkabout, the next its don't put down roots and connections in an area so you can just up and leave with no worries.

I'm not sure what kind of family you have but having to 'dump my kids' for a day or so with a family member is never a problem. Specifically if I'm going for a job interview. The pastor of my church and his wife would look after my kids in heartbeat. I can name 5 other family members that would watch my children. WTH...is every jobless person with a kid an introvert with no friends or family? This guy was going for a job interview...not a walkabout to whore and drink. Why not a family member? As far as roots, sometimes you have to cut and run...roots or not. My family moved 8 times since I was born. What seems to be the problem with up and leaving...roots or not? Everyone should attempt to make roots but also accept that the old root ball might have to up and leave.

[tater]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Taters "nest" idea is actually ludicrous in todays situation as people had their nests and thought they had their security and now they find that their nest is burnt, their tree condemned future propects of getting new twigs is non existantt as they have a burnt nest record and some bloody cuckoo is making a racket about these "silly" people not having a proper nest.
Now OK people might have their parents to fall back on, but in this rust belt situation you a looking at parents left in empty towns with their property asset now worthless and their pension provisions thrown away by some coked up banker, and you people want folk to leave kids with their grandparents who now live in a ghetto while they themselves live out the back of a car or in some doss house working illegaly in the black economy just to fix the damn motor car

Are you aware of what % of inner city children in the US are born out of wedlock? This is not a "Swedish" out of wedlock where they cohabitate, and don't marry to score better benis. This is the mom not necessarily even knowing who the dad is, or a dad that is entirely uninvolved in the childrens' (plural, all too often) lives past knocking mom up.

It's ~80%.

80%.

That's what I mean by "not making a nest."

The people who have lost their jobs are NOISE compared to that statistic. This is 100% preventable. Getting pregnant is a CHOICE, period. Having, you know, 2 involved parents is a necessary condition for a nest. Heck, it's a sufficient condition, IMO. I have friends who are unambiguously rich with kids fall into the "nest" category, and some that barely get by—but there are still 2 parents making a home. Unmarried, teenage girls with babies... not "nested." So I'm not talking about people who have their situation change, these are people who choose to have kids in an entirely untenable position.