Egypt-Inspired Protests Spread to Libya

Kings, Dictators, Queens, Presidents, whether they be Sunni or Shia those leaders who have associations with infidels such as you and I are corrupt and must be dealt with.

Yet they are also protesting against theocracies and anti western governments which makes your point pointless.

Do you know what a corrupt government is to a Muslim?

what a muslim thinks is irrelevant, you can put up a quote from a christian and it would be equally as meaningless.

Well Tribesman, the Sahib Al-Zaman is established doctrine for both Sunni and Shi’a Muslims.

So what?
How can they make this global caliphate you are so worried about when they spend their time fighting each other like they always have?

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Yet they are also protesting against theocracies and anti western governments which makes your point pointless.


what a muslim thinks is irrelevant, you can put up a quote from a christian and it would be equally as meaningless.

You have got to be kidding me, what a muslim thinks is irrelevant? Yousuf Al-Qaradhawi is somebody you will be hearing much more of in the coming days, count on it. He was someone invited by the Egyptian Army after being banned by Mubarak for over 30 years. This is what those beloved freedom fighters brought in the name of democracy and self-determination.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5020.htm

So what? How can they make this global caliphate you are so worried about when they spend their time fighting each other like they always have?

Not only is this a political goal but it is also a very religious one every muslim looks forward too. Nations are divided all the time look at the U.S. yet it functions, barely.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Upon futher investigation these protesters are a majoity Shia Muslim and they call themselves pro-democracy freedom fighters too! imagine that. Western media loves that crap so do the people they fall head over heels for those kinds of buzz words. When actually what they are fighting for is for the king to step down so they can live under a Shia Iman instead and probably boot the 5th fleet out.

They say they are pro-democracy, so they are anti-democracy. That sounds really logical

You have got to be kidding me, what a muslim thinks is irrelevant?

What a muslim thinks is pretty irrelevant.

This is what those beloved freedom fighters brought in the name of democracy and self-determination.

Indeed, this is what they brought in........
"the revolution belongs to all Egyptians, both Muslim and Christian."
damn, you are supposed to kill the christians and eat their babies.

"He praised the army's announcement of support for democracy, elections, and the establishment of a committee for changing the constitution."
How dare he say that? democracy and elections, a new constitution approved by the people...the tyrant

"He asked the army to disband the new government and to free the political prisoners"
Bloody hell he wants the new temporary military junta to end and wants political prisoners freed...this man is Hitler Stalin and Ghengis Khan all rolled into one with a side order of Pol pot.

Do you think that perhaps your link you provided should sort of in some way back up your points you are trying to make?

Not only is this a political goal but it is also a very religious one every muslim looks forward too.

Wow

Nations are divided all the time look at the U.S. yet it functions, barely.

And now for something completely different

[Castout]

The only way dictatorship could be sustained is by it being the obstruction to societal progress at the expense of greater good as well as the nation and human development. Even this will only buy them time. In the end less harsh dictatorship will extend some more time but dictatorships also change the dictators unfortunately making them worse over time and out of touch with reality and humanity in effect fastening the time of their downfall by popular protest. All in all dictatorship is never a sustainable form of governing.

Man's nature requirements demands personal freedom and development based on fair and just rule of law. Neither of which could be delivered by a dictatorship.

Thus even regime like North Korea could not be expected to stand forever.

Every dictatorship will collapse either by internal factor or infighting or the regime is weakening the state or society itself so much that it attracts a much stronger nation to naturalize it.

The fallacy of reasoning usually made by dictators is that they are somehow so important so irreplaceable that their totalitarian rule would benefit the majority of a nation. It's a false logic because NO LEADER is so talented as being irreplaceable UNLESS he's consciously and systematically trying to make it so either by propaganda or state endorsed lies or real efforts by impeding societal development or both. In short we are not so radically different from one another INSIDE. This may take insight or empathy to realize, something that an egoistical person unable to come to realization. In other words dictators are living in a dream world their egoistical mind project. And because of their lofty egoistical delusion dictators are vulnerable to treat their people however they like, discarding the fact that each is a person JUST LIKE himself.

[Rockstar]

suit yourself

by the way last post I win

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

by the way last post I win

Wrong thread...

ooops... now I've done it, you lose either way....

[Rockstar]

Wrong thread...

it is infectious isn't it? Dare I say it?

[Castout]

This song is a fitting reminder to all or would be dictators . it talks about dying actually. Well there is no powerful dead person ever.




The sun never revolves around any one man or even the entire mankind. Hard to accept but the planet and other species will most probably do even better without us

Come on be honest that's true.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

How pathetic and miserably sad this is one says it's irrelevant what a protester thinks and will argue just for the sake of arguing. The other posts a youtube song and says how the world would be a better place if we weren't here. .

And another one advocates dictatorships and is against freedom, while wanting exactly that for his own country

And whats even more troubling is someone is going to take my last post title trophy to this thread by responding to this

That honour will be mine

[Skybird]

From the chain of unrests, there is something more general to be learned, about Obama. I knew already that he had no interest in Europe, but recent events in the Arab world show that he indeed lacks any vision and comprehensive conception of foreign politics in general. This lack of concept explains why he is so absurdly zig-zagging back and forth between demanding democracy and being unable to come up with conceptual answers to the changes in the power and faction balance this change brings, and why he fails in trying the split between democracy and tyrannic monarchies in the Arab world.

As a German news outlet marked today, things will become really interesting when the unrest spreads to Bahrain - home and headquarter of the 5th fleet patrolling the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. Iran would love to see this American foothold disappear.

I slowly but surely must conclude that while Obama's foreign policy is different to that of GWB, it nevertheless shows the same level of incompetence, lacking understanding and stupidity. It already became suspicious when he started to appease the Islamic world, hailed the indeed totalitarianism of Islam as freedom and humanism, and next when he had that speech in Cairo. I immediately wondered if he really had thought it to the bitter end what he said there.

The American Middle East policy falls apart currently, and the long-sought balancing in its structure to win strategic stablity, is in pieces. Well-intended words cannot compensate for lacking sense of realism and Realpolitik. Some of the biggest disasters in man's history were caused by good intentions. It is here when Obama's undeniable brilliant rethoric talent turns out for the worst results.

Bush's problem was lobbyistic connections that pulled the strings he hang on, and lacking intellect. He simply is a stupid man. Obama's problem is not a lack of intelligence and intellect, but a too narrow horizon.

[DarkFish]

I tend to agree with you there Sky. I didn't see Bush's foreign policy as anything good, but Obama isn't much better. IMO he just jumps back and forth between all possible policies, without taking any firm standpoint. One moment he tried to appease the opposition in Egypt, while another time he firmly backed Mubarak. Generally speaking I like Obama better than Bush, but Bush at least usually took firm stances on foreign politics. Not this weak slippery unclear Obama talk

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

From the chain of unrests, there is something more general to be learned, about Obama. I knew already that he had no interest in Europe, but recent events in the Arab world show that he indeed lacks any vision and comprehensive conception of foreign politics in general. This lack of concept explains why he is so absurdly zig-zagging back and forth between demanding democracy and being unable to come up with conceptual answers to the changes in the power and faction balance this change brings, and why he fails in trying the split between democracy and tyrannic monarchies in the Arab world.

As a German news outlet marked today, things will become really interesting when the unrest spreads to Bahrain - home and headquarter of the 5th fleet patrolling the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. Iran would love to see this American foothold disappear.

I slowly but surely must conclude that while Obama's foreign policy is different to that of GWB, it nevertheless shows the same level of incompetence, lacking understanding and stupidity. It already became suspicious when he started to appease the Islamic world, hailed the indeed totalitarianism of Islam as freedom and humanism, and next when he had that speech in Cairo. I immediately wondered if he really had thought it to the bitter end what he said there.

The American Middle East policy falls apart currently, and the long-sought balancing in its structure to win strategic stablity, is in pieces. Well-intended words cannot compensate for lacking sense of realism and Realpolitik. Some of the biggest disasters in man's history were caused by good intentions. It is here when Obama's undeniable brilliant rethoric talent turns out for the worst results.

Bush's problem was lobbyistic connections that pulled the strings he hang on, and lacking intellect. He simply is a stupid man. Obama's problem is not a lack of intelligence and intellect, but a too narrow horizon.

I can't agree that Obama's policy is any different than Bush's. We have not changed our direction in the Middle East, nor anywhere else abroad. We do have words; lots of words, and some of them very nice. Still, those words have not changed out actions. If we are seeing the Middle East policy falling apart, it is because it was destined to do so. Our continued action in the Middle East is only reaping disaster because it has been sowed for 30 years. It is only by chance that it happens under Obama; it could have easily happened under Bush 43 or whoever the 45th US president will be. In directly addressing the Obama administration's policy, it may as well been a third term of the Bush administration, despite the rhetoric of change.

[Rockstar]

The people you support are choosing an Islamic Republic and Shria Law. IMO it was I believe the intent of these demonstrations from the beginning. For your benefit they use words like freedom and democracy they give westerners a warm and fuzzy feeling all over that brings a tear to their eye. While you weep for them try scraping away the deception and see it for what it is.

"Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. Islam doesn’t look for a nation to be in a better condition than another nation. Islam doesn’t care about the land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power that gets in the way of that goal, Islam will fight and destroy. In order to fulfill that goal, Islam can use every power available every way it can be used to bring worldwide revolution. This is Jihad."

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you, Thanks to our religious laws, we will dominate you." Abdullah Al-Araby, The Islamization of America.


I should add too. It's no secret we knew that by propping up governments with the likes of Mubarak in that region was simply the lesser of the two evils. He's gone now and now another yet greater one takes his place. I reckon it's were damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

The people you support are choosing an Islamic Republic and Shria Law. IMO it was I believe the intent of these demonstrations from the beginning. For your benefit they use words like freedom and democracy they give westerners a warm and fuzzy feeling all over that brings a tear to their eye. While you weep for them try scraping away the deception and see it for what it is.

See, I don't believe that it was the intent of the demonstrators to form an Islamic republic. However, I think that it will be the result of the liberalization of these nations. The militant Islamic groups are, by their nature, better organized and funded than other groups whom they would compete against for votes. They are not honest brokers, so they were able to operate more efficiently under the radar of a dictatorial regime. As such, they will have a tremendous advantage coming out of the blocks, so to speak. This is combined with the fact that most of the country's pro-democracy demonstrators are disenfranchised youth, a demographic that these Islamic groups specialize in recruiting. And so it is very likely that the end result is an Islamic republic born of the votes of the people; one that the US would be powerless to topple.