RFB and RSRD manual targeting guide

Hey guys me again.......sorry.

I'm having a heck of a time trying to manual target in RFB and RSRD.

All of the manuals I've seen appear to be in vanilla sh4. This doesn't help me to much with RFB since I have fewer tools to work with. Mainly I've notched that the attack map does not show the path of your torpedoes solution so that I might determine where my "cross the wire" bearing is. Therefore making my solution more like a blind guess.

Not to mention most of the guides use radar, which you don't have on your first patrol and then some in RFB.

Can anyone help me. The Dick O' Kane method is what I am speaking of.

EDIT: Nobody knows if I should still see my solution track in RFB+RSDC?

[I'm goin' down]

You question is not specific enough. Please state what the problem is that you are having. Setting up a broadside shot is not difficult once you know what is expected of you. You do not need to see the solution on the Attack Map, so not seeing it should not be fatal to your set up.

[Budds]

I cant help you with what you can, or cannot see in your set-up....

But perhaps reading some of this helps you ?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111998

And follow down the thread to this in post #9 from Hitman where he says...
"If you have a good AOB and speed estimate, range is irrelevant."

Is Sooo True !!!
I am no "Master", or Ace... but hit targets regularly with no Map contacts or "Lines" provided on the Maps.
Get the Targets speed, and angle... and as long as its within your Torps Range You'll hit !

There are MANY Posts on this subject, and most are usefull !
But here is my rough run thru....
Start plotting your target, get the watch runnin... Get Target Speed, I get the range... but dont get to hung up if Im "Off" a bit.
By now the Targets AOB should be falling into place for you as you plot.... Keep the Watch goin, Check Speed.
Pick my "Shot-Spot", and move into that position while continuing the Above procedures.

Lets say I wanna my Shot to go straight out the bow... a Zero Shot.
The Target is moving @ 10knts, from my right... to my left. ( AOB for me will almost ALWAYS be 70-80 or 100-110. )
My scope will line up on the 10 degree line, and thats where I'll pull the trigger when the Fat part of my target passes....... Contact should happen near the Zero Degree Radial.

Now thats simplistic explanation... but basics of the chore.
Read some of the Fine Explanations already posted, and soon you'll be putting it all together without a second thought, and wont need the visual "Tools"... or even miss them !

Be Well ..........

My question specifically is why I can not see my solution on the attack map when ALL of the GUIDES show that you can.

That mean that I either have a faulty install of RFB+RSRD, or RFB+RSRD takes that away.

If RFB+RSRD takes that away, which wouldn't surprise me (whether I agree is a different story) then I would like help specifically on what I need to do in RFB.

I've watched RR's video about 15 times and I follow it to a T every single time. Yet it is clear whenever I fire my torpedoes that the solution is so far off I would be better firing without a solution.

I have shadowed the same convoy (an invasion convoy smack in the middle of the Luzon Straight in 41 S-18 class) I know that the course they are sailing at is 185 (meaning my 90 degree intercept is 265). I know they are sailing at 12 knots. I have done an attack run on them enough to memorize it. They are sailing to the south and I am intercepting them on a westerly course (265). According to RR's video you want to lead 10 to 15 degrees in order to get the most accurate (from 0 which means my firing bearing is 280 because I want all the accuracy I need)

I sit and wait, the last time (before I posted this response) I noticed that the lead escort zig zagged once the rest of the convoy did not. I fired at a range of around 1500 yards (since range does not matter?) with the torpedoes the S-18 class can fit. I fired all four, two at some very large ship (possible troop carrier) and two at a tank like vessel. All once they crossed the 15 degree mark (from the right). I quickly switched back after every fire and every torpedo turns wildly off course (sharply to the left shortly after leaving the sub). Yet that is not the solution I have entered.

I can't check my firing solution in the attack map (which is very nice to have to confirm to yourself that you do have the "final solution"*) which again might be something RFB does away with. Why? I don't know its a bit annoying but if thats what RFB does thats fine, I'll learn to cope. But I feel like I'm trying to learn to fire a gun in a dark room while blindfolded with it stacked full of friendlies and only one bad guy...

It is hairpullingly frustrating.....Ha would that be a Bushism?

*Just a joke for the thin skinned. Saw a sig that said don't ask a WW2 Historian about his Final Solution. Post seemed a bit harsh and I wanted to inject some humor.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

My question specifically is why I can not see my solution on the attack map when ALL of the GUIDES show that you can.

That mean that I either have a faulty install of RFB+RSRD, or RFB+RSRD takes that away.

If RFB+RSRD takes that away, which wouldn't surprise me (whether I agree is a different story) then I would like help specifically on what I need to do in RFB.

I've watched RR's video about 15 times and I follow it to a T every single time. Yet it is clear whenever I fire my torpedoes that the solution is so far off I would be better firing without a solution.

I have shadowed the same convoy (an invasion convoy smack in the middle of the Luzon Straight in 41 S-18 class) I know that the course they are sailing at is 185 (meaning my 90 degree intercept is 265). I know they are sailing at 12 knots. I have done an attack run on them enough to memorize it. They are sailing to the south and I am intercepting them on a westerly course (265). According to RR's video you want to lead 10 to 15 degrees in order to get the most accurate (from 0 which means my firing bearing is 280 because I want all the accuracy I need)

I sit and wait, the last time (before I posted this response) I noticed that the lead escort zig zagged once the rest of the convoy did not. I fired at a range of around 1500 yards (since range does not matter?) with the torpedoes the S-18 class can fit. I fired all four, two at some very large ship (possible troop carrier) and two at a tank like vessel. All once they crossed the 15 degree mark (from the right). I quickly switched back after every fire and every torpedo turns wildly off course (sharply to the left shortly after leaving the sub). Yet that is not the solution I have entered.

I can't check my firing solution in the attack map (which is very nice to have to confirm to yourself that you do have the "final solution"*) which again might be something RFB does away with. Why? I don't know its a bit annoying but if thats what RFB does thats fine, I'll learn to cope. But I feel like I'm trying to learn to fire a gun in a dark room while blindfolded with it stacked full of friendlies and only one bad guy...

It is hairpullingly frustrating.....Ha would that be a Bushism?

*Just a joke for the thin skinned. Saw a sig that said don't ask a WW2 Historian about his Final Solution. Post seemed a bit harsh and I wanted to inject some humor.

I do not play RFB. When I did, I believe I recall that it did not display the tracking angle. TMO displays it. Here is what I recommend. Get a hold of Rockin Robbins' O'Kane practice mission. You load it as a mod. If you cannot find it, send him a PM. Then you can practice in the sunny waters of Southern, CA until your heart is content.

On crucial thing to remember is that you may screw up the solution inadvertently by moving the scope. So, shortly before you launch torpedoes, set the scope a the correct lead angle and resend range. That should fix and changes to the solution you have input. Remember, the TDC is running, but the PK is not activated.

Alternatively, download FOTRS.

I suggest you load the Easy Aob mod if you are doing manual targeting.

*sigh* Twice more I tried twice more the torpedoes missed by a mile.

I can't help but think I'm doing things wrong because the torpedoes are not the "new" faster torpedoes. The Mark 14 are not fast they are slow but ALL the guides assume you have radar and fast torpedoes.

I will try a few more times. Hopefully the software gods might have mercy and allow me to hit at least one of the targets that I am aiming at.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I quickly switched back after every fire and every torpedo turns wildly off course (sharply to the left shortly after leaving the sub). Yet that is not the solution I have entered.

Do you have the Position Keeper turned off?

Can you describe exactly how you are entering your data? Perhaps we can help you identify any problems there.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I can't check my firing solution in the attack map (which is very nice to have to confirm to yourself that you do have the "final solution"*) which again might be something RFB does away with. Why? I don't know its a bit annoying but if thats what RFB does thats fine, I'll learn to cope.

I don't run RFB, so I can't say for sure if it modifies the attack map. You can verify your solution on the periscope screen, though. The bottom dial on the Position Keeper on the left hand side is the torpedo gyro angle. You can hover the mouse over it and get the gyro angle. It should be 0 degrees, or within a few degrees of 0; also, it should be holding steady, not moving at all.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

*Just a joke for the thin skinned. Saw a sig that said don't ask a WW2 Historian about his Final Solution. Post seemed a bit harsh and I wanted to inject some humor.

It was from one of the techs support guys in our call center. He'd just got off of a rather long call, and we worked late evening shift, so blowing off steam by shouting across the room was done quite often, and we didn't have to worry about management bothering us.

Originally Posted by razark

It was from one of the techs support guys in our call center. He'd just got off of a rather long call, and we worked late evening shift, so blowing off steam by shouting across the room was done quite often, and we didn't have to worry about management bothering us.

Ah knowing the gyro angle would be awesome!

That would allow me to set the cross the wire bearing as 0 then using the Gyro angle I know that the lead angle (or true zero as I call it) would be at X bearing! That may in fact be the missing piece!

I think my problem my have been following all the assumptions made within the guides. I will re-try the approach again and see if I have any new luck.

But now I have another question, do I send the range and bearing to TDC while I'm looking at 0 or my lead angle? I would assume 0, and I think I've been doing that wrong.

I've been putting in (with PK off) an AoB of 75 (right to left) a speed of 12 and a range of whatever because all the guides say it doesn't matter but I have been using my 15 degree lead.

Oh man call centers I spent two years working for a telemarketing company (trying like hell to get into their tech department.) I can understand the whole blowing off steam. I just saw you sig and rolled for a good few minutes. Nothing is funny than jokes laced with history. Cause you can tell people who don't know history.

Thanks for the help guys I'm going to try out this and report back.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

But now I have another question, do I send the range and bearing to TDC while I'm looking at 0 or my lead angle? I would assume 0, and I think I've been doing that wrong.

Point your scope down your shooting bearing, and send that bearing.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I've been putting in (with PK off) an AoB of 75 (right to left) a speed of 12 and a range of whatever because all the guides say it doesn't matter but I have been using my 15 degree lead.

I usually play early in the war, so I usually shoot from a 45 degree intercept, so if I muck this up, that might be why. I'm trying to keep the angles straight in my head for a 90 degree shot.

Set the speed to 12. Aim your scope at the 15 degree mark. Send the bearing (hit the button twice). Now, set your AoB dial to 75 degrees, and send that (once again, hit the button twice; I'm not sure why, but it's the way I learned it). Go check the Gyro Angle dial on the position keeper. It should be somewhere around 0. If you really want to, you can note how far off it is, for example, let's say it points at 5 degrees. You can then adjust your scope bearing to 10 degrees (15-5=10), send that. Adjust your AoB to 80 degrees (75+5=80), send it. Check the gyro angle again, it should be closer to 0. You can also check the torpedo's track angle (the angle at which the torpedo will hit the target) on the top dial, and make sure it's close to 90.

Now, wait for that target to cross the wire, and put some holes in it.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Oh man call centers I spent two years working for a telemarketing company (trying like hell to get into their tech department.) I can understand the whole blowing off steam. I just saw you sig and rolled for a good few minutes. Nothing is funny than jokes laced with history. Cause you can tell people who don't know history.

I worked in a telemarketing call center for a while. It wasn't exactly my thing. I got moved into the recording room after a while, listening to calls for sales/customer service verification. That was pretty fun.

The other call center was the tech support floor for a server hosting company. The building also had one of the Houston Data Centers, so I can actually say that I've been in the same room as Subsim itself. I got out of that job before the power room exploded, though. The job was pretty bad, the customers were mostly annoying, but the tech support crew was a load of fun, especially after all the managers left.

Nope didn't work not even close.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

I never miss on OM, n.e.v.e.r. This mod is hardly any different from OM other than the TDC.

I just do not understand.

Again, I know the exact course, speed and AoB of the convoy, hell I know the exact time in which I need to turn from my navigation course to my intercept course (before I even make visual contact), 01:00 hrs.

I enter the AoB since it always pops up first again off the assumption of the guides I put it to 75 (right to left) click the thing twice, enter the speed 12 kts click it twice, then send bearing to TDC which should turn to 0 but I'm noticing the gyro angle says 0 but the bearing from the bow is (the bearing from the bow that is the torpedoes course) >>>>260<<<<<. My correct solution is so far off the torps run out of fuel before the ship even cross the "wake" of the torpedos.

Am I to understand that I can not move my scope once I have entered the solution?

At what bearing should I send bearing to TDC? 0 or 15 or 345? All the guides have assumptions in them, radar, better than Mark 14 torpedoes not in S-18 class. *Sigh* sorry to go off on a rant, I think I'm just trying to hard.

Any way I can put the solution view back into RFB without breaking the mod? I doubted it.

I'm going to try a few more times and just give up. This is really bad for blood pressure.

EDIT: My previous post should have read "Nothing is **funnier** than jokes laced with history" Sounded like I was being an ass with what I had wrote Sorry! Gonna go have a cig and a few deep breathes and try once more and see if that will work.

Thanks to all who have been walking me through this, I'm sure your pulling your own hair out on account of me.

[I'm goin' down]

TMO is compatible with RSRDC. It is a superior mod, and you will have your tracking angles on the Attack Map. But I would isolate the problem(s) with the Dick O'Kane training video first. You can replay the mission as often as you would like. Double clicking the attack dials as noted by razark is important. Read the Dick O'Kane thread in Skippers Bag of Tricks sticky. Remember the TDC is calculating the lead angle even though the PK is not activated.

If you set up at 90 degrees, set up with a firing point at a bearomg of 350 degrees (if the is the target is approaching with its starboard side exposed) or a firing point of 10 degrees (if the target is approaching with its port side exposed) and the target's speed is 8 or 9 kts., the torpedo impact point will be around 0 degrees. See gutted's chart in the Dick O'Kane thread. Ideal range is 800-1,000 yds.

I hope you realize the final solution comment in the signature is a double entendre.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Nope didn't work not even close.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

If it's any consolation, I don't either.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I enter the AoB since it always pops up first again off the assumption of the guides I put it to 75 (right to left) click the thing twice, enter the speed 12 kts click it twice, then send bearing to TDC

Try entering the bearing in first, and then the AoB. The game does seem to have issues sometimes.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Am I to understand that I can not move my scope once I have entered the solution?

Once you enter your solution, you can move the scope. As long as you don't enter any data, your solution will not change. You can swing the scope around to look at the situation, or even lower it and shoot by sound bearing (I haven't tried that), and the TDC will still be set for your original solution.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

At what bearing should I send bearing to TDC? 0 or 15 or 345? All the guides have assumptions in them, radar, better than Mark 14 torpedoes not in S-18 class. *Sigh* sorry to go off on a rant, I think I'm just trying to hard.

You should be aiming and firing when the target is on your 15 or 345 bearing. 15 if he's going from your right to your left; 345 if he's going from left to right. The TDC should take account of the torpedoes' speed for you.

[Edit: Wait, an S-boat?!? You shouldn't even be using the TDC! You should break out the slide-rules, protractors, paper and pencils.]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Any way I can put the solution view back into RFB without breaking the mod? I doubted it.

I'm guessing it probably can. I don't remember what file it was, but I'm guessing the line graphic was modified.

Ah. It was. It was replaced with an blank line. (See what you've made me do! I had to pause and go dig into the files... That 8000 ton maru will just have to wait.)

Ok, this should work (but may have unintended consequences, so don't be surprised to see something you didn't expect):
1. Uninstall RFB (I hope you're using JSGME).
2. Go into the MODS\RFB\Data\Menu\Gui\ folder.
3. Rename ContLine.dds and DashLine.dds to ContLine.dds.bak and DashLine.dds.bak
4. Reinstall RFB.

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

EDIT: My previous post should have read "Nothing is **funnier** than jokes laced with history" Sounded like I was being an ass with what I had wrote Sorry!

No problem. I got what you meant.

Hmmm I just stumbled across something interesting, posting this via iPhone as I try and recreate it and record it while I do so.

First let allow me to explain, I decided I would play around with the solution. I know the speed AoB but I think the bearing has been what is kickin my stern hardcore. So I began playing around with the bearing and what it did to the gyro angle and the torpedoes course so here where the results.

Speed 12, AoB 75, Bearing 0.
Gyro angle: 340
Torpedoes Course: 339

Bearing 10
340
339. No change to gyro or bearing

Bearing 20
9
7. Radical change to both

Bearing 30
9
7. No change

Bearing 40
9
7. Again no change.

Yet when I went through the same bearings, the results don't match. Something isn't working right. The only thing I can reproduce is that the gyro and course radically jumps at 20 degrees.

This is strange perhaps I do have something wrong on my end.

[I'm goin' down]

try firing at 350 (starboard side exposed) and 10 degrees (port side exposed) if the target speed is >15 kts.

Based on you last post, it looks like the target may be sailing away from your boat. In O'Kane it should be sailing towards the direction of your boat. Sailing away is not good. It is BAD.

Bearings of the target should be 50...40...30...20...10 (fire)...0 (Splash 1)

Or. 310...320...330...340...350 (fire)...0 (As Rockin Robbins might say, Oops!! I sunk an Essex class.)

[razark]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

So I began playing around with the bearing and what it did to the gyro angle and the torpedoes course so here where the results.

Speed 12, AoB 75, Bearing 0.
Bearing 10
Bearing 20
Bearing 30
Bearing 40

You would also need to update the AoB for each bearing to get a correct solution. Also, for a 90 degree Dick O'Kane attack, your AoB is off. The target should be at an AoB of 90 when he is at 0 bearing.

What you should have is:

Bearing | AoB
--------+-----
  000   | 90
  010   | 80
  020   | 70
  030   | 60
And so on...

However, that still doesn't explain the results you got. If I wasn't in the middle to tracking a target, I'd throw it into my TDC to see what I got. Try updating the bearing and AoB and see what happens.